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The Courage to Live Authentically W/ Katlin Doyle #29

There are people in our lives who really light us up and offer us a sense of deep connection and inspiration. Katlin Doyle is one of those humans for me.

Ever since meeting her, I have been so moved by how she shows up. She is truly a devotee of the sacred, of the living cycles of life, and of the beauty in all. Katlin has a special ability of weaving her unique gifts into authentic, heart-opening experiences for humans, from cacao ceremonies, women's circles, ecstatic dance events, musical performances, and so much more.

A few key topics from this episode include:

  • Following the path of our own heart and living an authentic life

  • Learning to listen to and trust the whisper, even amongst the noise

  • Navigating conflict in a healthy, open-hearted, and constructive way

  • Healing the inner child and tapping into the wisdom of our ancestors

There’s tons of juicy nuggets of wisdom in this conversation. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.


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Instagram | @katlinanndoyle

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Stu Murray: I've been looking forward to this, honestly, since the time I met you. Oh, and I've gotta say that meeting you and your sister. Was such a profound shift for me in my life. I was really digging up some deep stuff and going into some vulnerable places, and my heart was raw and open, and I decided to jump in the car with my buddy Pappy and make our way over to the island and landed at your space and just witnessing you and your sister, who is now my beautiful partner.

It just blew my mind. I was like, these two women are killing it. They're rocking [00:02:00] in their feminine and creating beautiful space, and to be at that. Ecstatic dance event with the cow that you had served. Like I was just feeling so held and it was, it marked a big shift for me in my life. And I feel grateful to be connected with you as a sister and to learn and grow.

And every time we get to connect and collide in the flesh, like the conversations and the flow is just so beautiful. So, I don't know, and I don't think you do either where this conversation will go, but I'm excited it's

Katlin Doyle: happening. Me too. Yeah. As you're expressing that, I was feeling how big of a portal that was, I think, for all of us, like at that time.

But just thinking of you and Emily in this like gorgeous portal that, that was for the both of you and Yeah, it was destiny bringing all of those energies into being so. Very

Stu Murray: [00:03:00] grateful. So grateful. And it's so funny how often we get in our own way and really question the divine unfolding of life, you know, and we have our own challenges or struggles.

It's like those are the moments where we need faith the most, but they're often the times where, you know, the well is most dry and then all of a sudden life just throws you a little something to help you remember. Totally. To help me remember just how beautiful it is and to trust . Yeah. Totally. And speaking of that, like speaking of trust and leaning in, you are going through some deep trust and some deep courageous moments where you've been building up so many different aspects for quite a long time, and you're at this point where you're actually giving yourself the space to be able to let go and to make space for possibility.

Could you share a little bit about kind of where you're [00:04:00] at right

Katlin Doyle: now? Totally. So, eight years ago, eight years ago, I started a chocolate business called Nurturing Essence. It's creating these beautiful, vegan, really healthy, organic chocolates and really based and rooted in the medicine of keow and sharing all the beauty that comes with that for people.

And nurturing essence really is like the name itself expresses why I began this. It's like nurturing the essence of life through food and through this, you know, beautiful, pleasurable substance we can give to ourselves. And so the last eight years of my journey has been, building this business and sharing this creation, this medicine with the community here in Prince Edward, Rhode Island.

And I am pausing that journey [00:05:00] and stepping into the unknown and into transition and shift. And just so many aspects of that journey have been so beautiful and nurturing and nourishing, and it's clear that there's something else coming through and is deserving the space. You know, for that birth to happen.

And alongside of that holding space for mainly women and transformational spaces, and that is in itself, weaving in, its out of its own portal of transition as well. But yeah, for me, there's nothing on the horizon. I wrote an Instagram post recently cuz during this, you know, the shift, people are like, okay, so what's next?

What are you doing? Why are you moving on? And I just had to like, there was so much kind of bubbling in with me in this moment when morning I just wrote out [00:06:00] this piece of writing in my journal. I was just like, what's next is diving right into, excuse my language for the fucking mystery right. I'm not the type of person to, find out what's next before I even get there.

Right. I'm not someone to plan and, kind of carve out some storyline of what I want my future to look like. I wanna live it. I want to let it become embodied by being in those sticky places of spaciousness, really.

Stu Murray: Mm. Wow. I'm sure even just people hearing that would start to cause some anxiety within them.

Just like not having that bridge, that comfortable space, like you're looking at a leap into the unknown. And for so many of us, we try and create a life around comfort and convenience and try and make things certain. Yeah. And so we carve lifestyles that. [00:07:00] Direct us in a certain way so that each step can feel comfortable and convenient, and we know exactly where we're going.

And yet at the same time, that's often these things that keep us more small and stop us from stepping into this more expansive, beautiful field of potentiality and it's really from that unknown, it's from that void. It's from a place of surrender and patience and trust that it seems like some of the most beautiful things in our life landed.

And sometimes we call those coincidences. Sometimes we call them magic and mystery. But really it just seems to be the way life works, that when we are able to get into these spaces where there's tapping into that potential and possibility, that thing just seems to land totally

Katlin Doyle: well. You can look at it as a very like physical, 3d, tangible.

Thing, right? If a woman wants to birth [00:08:00] a baby, she's receiving life force into a space that is dark, empty and ready to receive. Right? So we can take that into our own life as a metaphor of like, okay, I want to create something beautiful and new. How can I give myself the space and the nurturing environment?

If we're constantly filling ourselves up with things that aren't allowing space to allow whatever is meant to flow next. It's not, there's gonna be no space for that.

Stu Murray: Totally. And it seems that's almost part of the, Cultural narrative that we've inherited is in order to affect any particular change in life, I need to exert a force. And if I want a dramatic change, then I need a dramatic force in order [00:09:00] to really birth what is next. And perhaps that's part of that wounded masculine that's dominated our cultural perception for so long.

And really, as you said, I think that's a perfect metaphor, is tapping into the sacred feminine, which is the source of creation, this birthplace of life. And it's like that pregnant void. And it's stepping into that place where we can trust, where we can know that if I just let go and I have faith and I can surrender here, I might not see what's on the other side of.

But there are beautiful things coming. There are beautiful things on their way, and it's a matter of trusting in that. And I remember last time, one of the first things you said is, change is getting me excited. Mm-hmm. . And it's like on one side is there's that fear of the unknown where it's, you know, if I can't make things certain then I'm gonna freak the fuck out

But on the other side of that is just this [00:10:00] wonderful field of potential and possibility. And it seems like that's the space that you're dancing in right now. Totally.

Katlin Doyle: I'm really excited not to be the chocolate lady for a little bit . So many people, in my life, in my community here know me as the chocolate lady.

Right. And I've talked to you a. About this before and how I kind of straddle to worlds. There's like the chocolate lady and then there's the ca cow lady. The chocolate lady makes vegan chocolates themselves at the farmer's market, and the Caco lady serves cacao ceremonies to community. And I think that, it's time to bridge all selves, right?

All parts of myself. And it was very coincidental right after my last market day last week, my sister and I went downtown. We grabbed a tea and we went into a bookstore and I bought a book. And the woman working there, I'd recognized her and she's like, oh, are you still making chocolate? And I was just like, no.

And it was [00:11:00] this really beautiful moment, to be like, oh, I'm no longer what people think I am. Right? And they still might identify me as that person, but I no longer want to be that image in someone's eye and it's not that I don't love that embodiment of myself, but I'm so ready to have a blank canvas for people not to identify me in this way or that way.

And for me not to feel attached or tied down to those identifications. So that's also what I'm so excited about is like to be nobody, but you know, my whole self and somebody, right. So that's super exciting for me and for some people that might be scary, but I think it's been a long time coming for me.

This has been a process of about two years of deep thought of knowing there's a change and that's how long it took, for me to [00:12:00] move through all the fear and the questioning, the in and the out and all that takes to make a leap. Mm. And one thing I did wanna mention about taking these leaps is, I think I'm coming from a place that feels excited is cuz I haven't let go of my root. We need to feel safe and we need to feel like we're still held, and we can take care of ourselves and to just jump into the unknown without having an attachment to our roots. That can be where the fear. So, to make a change, to make a big jump and take a leap into this space of change and mystery, making sure you have resources to hold you through that so you don't kind of get dabbled in that very root chakra. Like, how am I gonna do all those things right.

Stu Murray: That's such a good point. What comes up for me there as an image is stepping on the wing of a plane and looking out and as much as that's exhilarating and as much as there's a rush when I've [00:13:00] been out on that wing of a plane as I'm about to jump off, like I know I also feel reassured and safe because I've got a pack on my back that's going to be my lifesaving device, which also has a built-in emergency pull as well.

And jumping outta that plane without a backpack is very different. Yeah. And so to create the conditions and the structures so that I can actually jump out and feel safe and reassured, even though there's that exhilarating rush, even though there's these places like to jump out into that and abandon all things and have no regard for any financial security or any of these things would be absolutely terrifying and not very recommended, but doing so in a way that we can create that right container so that we're able to be excited about these jumps.

And I don't think we're gonna be able to manifest. That more beautiful narrative for ourselves if we're doing it out of fear and scarcity to begin with. So making sure that we're aligned with those right intentions. And [00:14:00] the other thing that came up for me there, Katlin, was this idea of how it can be nice to have these labels and identities, you know, being the chocolate woman or the Cal woman or the educator or all of these things that we have.

They can be comforting and we can find peace and reassurance in these things that, that give us a sense of self-worth. But as we step along that spiritual path in a nonoo way, but in a really grounded sense, like we know that there's something so much bigger than all of these labels that we could apply that make us who we are.

And so there's a source of self-worth that can be found so much deeper than the labels that we clinging to. Only when we lose ourselves can we really find ourselves, when we're able to shed all self-definition, can we really find out who we are. And so what you're doing is just this most beautiful thing where it's almost like that little etch a sketch and it's like you've created all of these beautiful [00:15:00] art artistic pieces on this thing.

And it's like, okay, I'm gonna let the waves come in and take the sandcastle. I'm gonna etch just sketch this thing and let's see what's there. I'm not losing any of these tools, I'm not losing these experiences. I'm not losing any of this. I'm just making space for the next chapter, for the next evolution.

Katlin Doyle: Totally. Yeah. And as you say that, it reminds me like, you know, this feels like such a powerful inner shift for me and the way that I will show up in my life and in my community, and. In general will feel completely different on the inside for me. Yet you may no long, you may or whoever may never recognize any of the intership that I feel it may manifest somewhat on the external via what I do for a living and et cetera, but it's so much deeper. This movement into change and transition and pause is a deeply internal [00:16:00] sacred process of my heart. And when you said the etch sketch, it's like I can remove all everything on the outside and myself with the capital S will always remain right? She will always be there no matter what.

And what I look like on the outside may never change to some people, but it's how I feel on the inside is what really matters and what counts in this moment.

Stu Murray: Mm. And I think that's really watering the roots rather than watering the branches. Because the more we tend to watering these branches, what I would call them is external aspects of our identity and clinging to those things is almost setting ourselves up for some kind of existential crisis at some point.

Because as long as we're just clinging to these things as I'm the good parent, or I'm the good employee, or I'm the good ceo, or I'm insert whatever [00:17:00] external, instead of watering the deep aspects of who we truly are and this interconnected aspect of capital S self. Mm-hmm. . Well then we're going to constantly be seeking and our roots will be dry if we're not tending to and watering those.

And I'm curious, in this whole process, as you've been listening, as you've been sitting with all of this, how do you listen to that voice inside that knows it's time for change? Hmm.

Katlin Doyle: That is a good question. For me it comes in ways of seeing visions of who I am becoming and how I want to feel. And then there's these little messages that come through spirit that are just like, you know, here's the steps to get there. And sometimes they're whispers and it's hard to listen and it's hard to trust those little nudges.

But for me, the trusting process comes [00:18:00] through aligning with who I wanna be, how I wanna feel, and how I wanna really embody this temple, and this life, right? And when I think about that deep nature of who I am on a core level, and then I look at what's externally in my life and how they may align or not align, then it gets clear.

Okay, what can go to allow me to stay deeper in this path of where my soul is really guiding me. I spend a lot of time in my own space and in nature and just really taking care of myself. And it's from those places where I'm stripped away from all the external things where I don't have social media and I don't have voices of people who might have their own story of what they want my life to be.

And it's in those places of nature [00:19:00] and spaciousness where I can feel. My own soul and what she's speaking. And the more I do that, the more I devote myself to that spaciousness of taking the time that feels really good and nourishing, the louder and more projected that that essence can become. And it's easier to make the decisions to listen and to really hear right, all stripping away the distractions and doing the hard work it takes to move through the limiting beliefs of other people projected onto me, you know, family members to do like the ancestral work that comes up.

Is this my true fear or is this something that's been passed down through my bones due to trauma from my ancestors? And so noticing those things and doing what it takes to really excavate and get continuously back to that core and then acting, acting upon the little [00:20:00] messages of the listening.

That's the hardest step cuz we can listen and listen and receive the message. But for me it's the executing, I got the message to leave my business like two years ago, right? And then I sink back into it and then I'm no longer happy. But I make all of these, adjustments to make it seem like I'm happy and make the little shifts in.

I do trust in divine timing. I think this is the most perfect moment for me to be stepping into. And that's just an example of how long sometimes it takes to do the excavating, to take away all of those pressures that aren't truly ours. And hopefully with time as I walk this path, I wouldn't have to wait that long to listen to some of the messages.

And some of them are easier to listen to than others

but that's, yeah. Little bit of a tangent of [00:21:00] how it feels to listen for me.

Stu Murray: I don't even think that's tangential. I think those are wonderful tools because I personally believe both theoretically and through personal experience that we all have the answers in our heart. We all know, and there is a whisper that's guiding us all the time and the quieter that we can get in these spaces that are removed, particularly from external influences and particularly where there's a higher energetic vibration like in nature and in our sacred spaces that we tend to, and that we show up in and through our practices, we can amplify the sound of that whisper. And sometimes that whisper becomes a screen if we've been neglecting it. And it will come through in all kinds of ways that we just have to honor the call or will continue to suffer at our own expense and at the expense of those around us, and ultimately at the expense of the world [00:22:00] because we're not living in our gift.

And so I think what you're talking about with being able to listen has so much to do about silencing these external influences and really trusting our inner guidance. Who am I doing this for? Ultimately? What is the end goal here? I wanna live my authentic life. And that's part of maturity, that's part of stepping into our full expression.

And that's part of your journey into this maturing, vibrant women, is to live into your own authenticity. And I think in the age of hyper stimulation and social media and the FOMO that we're living through and all of these things that we want to clinging to ideas. And this ramping up of identity politics and how we've been longing to clinging to something that's of meaning.

Because all of us deeply wanna belong to live into our truest authenticity is such a courageous and beautiful act [00:23:00] in these days. And I think it's one of the most inspiring messages that we can embody as a means of personal and collective transformation.

Katlin Doyle: Ah, yeah. And I so appreciate you saying that.

Cause one of the things I was thinking about just right after I stopped talking about listening is, thinking about the ways that we may get the whispers to stop things that we've been doing or to change parts of ourselves.

But what's a really beautiful example of listening is the ways in which spirit offers us our gifts through listening. And it gives us the little nudges of magic for us to listen to the medicine we're supposed to receive, to then deliver to the world. And that is the authenticity, right? And so when we can develop our trust muscle of listening to spirit and the ways to embody our authenticity, we develop this trust muscle of not being led astray.

Mm. So the more we can listen for the little bits of joy and the [00:24:00] little bits of wonder and little bits of our expression meant to come through us. We start to know the feeling of when the whispers are stirring for me, it arrives in my belly and my heart. It feels this expansion and that is on this authenticity becoming embodied, right?

This is unique to me. I'm not looking at my cell phone on someone's Instagram page saying that's who I wanna be. Right? It's like when we're like naked and raw in our, you know, being that spirit's like, this is who you are. And then you can take that and share that with the world in whichever way that manifests for you.

It's just so beautiful and delicious. And then we trust ourselves enough to trust when we need to make change, as challenging as that may be

Stu Murray: Mm. Wow. I am feeling that through my whole body and I really agree [00:25:00] with that literal, visceral feeling that can come through us as we learn to be able to tap in. And as we learn to connect with ourselves, we can feel expansion and contraction literally in our body. You know, do my shoulders round forward. Do I pull back or do I feel this excitement even? And this bridge between excitement and nerves, there's gonna be a part of us as we feel that excitement. It might come through as nervousness and we might shut down and try and block it and be like, no, that's probably some signal that I shouldn't be doing this.

But really it might be the call to the warrior, the call to courage, the call to lean in and step into that more authentic expression. What, as you were speaking there, I couldn't help but think talking about being naked, talking about being wild, is also that inner child within the US who the inner child is the dreamer.

You look at any child and they'll shamelessly tell you their biggest [00:26:00] dreams and aspirations and all of these things, and it's almost a return, a revisiting to that inner child, that dreamer within us who knows all these possibilities and knows our full potential before all of the scarring and all of the trauma and all of the experiences that keep us closed and small and cut us off from that intuitive guidance. In the maturing of who we are, we're able to revisit our inner child and be like, it's okay.

You're safe. Take my hand and let's dream together. Yeah.

Katlin Doyle: That's so beautiful. And that's exactly what it is, right? I'm a very visual person, so I'm seeing, right now my embodied self as I am looking like I am right now, holding the hand in my little one and then holding the hand in my cr right, like this generational embodiment of myself where I can look and say, what is the wisdom to be poured down into me right now?

And then look at my little one. I'm like, how can I bring more joy? How can I bring more of that childlike essence [00:27:00] of exploration? I have to admit, I've always been a dreamer. My whole life I felt so attached to possibility. And the last several years, specifically the last two and a half, three years, I felt so that part of myself is just dimmed as like so much it's been like stripped away from us and the this strange portal of time we've gone through on earth and, I don't feel that weight anymore, which feels so good.

And I think it's a part of this maturing, this journey that I am on is like rekindling that relationship with the little one and say, you know, giving her the love and making her feel safe to, to be who she is. Because, we have so much potential and there's so much weight that gets thrown onto us, and sometimes we don't even feel the burden of it.

It just comes and it's sneaks upon our back and until one day we wake up and be like, oh my God, where have I been? Right? And then we just return, it's like [00:28:00] this electrical bolt that shocks us back into being. Yeah. Grateful for the remembering.

Stu Murray: Wow. I love that so much, Katlin, about not only, I think that inner child work is something that's starting to be recognized more, but also to be able to hold the hand of the cor and hold the hand of our wisest self and our wisest expression to look forward and also see, hey, that's part of this trust and this journey, and let's call on this wisest expression of ourselves when we need it, when we're uncertain, when were all these things.

And they'll be able to just as we can to our inner child, like, listen, I know you're scared. I know you're worried. I know you don't fully know who you are, and you just want belonging, and you wanna express your authenticity and trust like you're doing exactly what you need to and you're where you are to get there.

And just if there's anything I can give you, it's the courage to trust. I think there's something beautiful about [00:29:00] pulling on our ancestors and our own version of us as an ancestor to be able to be there and to be able to hold that space and to create that container. Because, you know, freedom and this most authentic open expression requires safety.

Emily and I were talking about this last night is in order to be able to be vulnerable as fuck, in order to be able to put down our armor, I need to feel safe. I need to have the right container because what I'm doing is actually stepping into the wild, wild west of existence here. And I'm just having faith that's going to hold me, but I can't do that if I'm scared about the people around me or the situations or all of these things going on.

So I need to have that container and yeah, we can do that from our friends and we can do that with our family. But to be able to draw on the wisdom and the strength of our ancestors, of us as an [00:30:00] ancestor of where we're at right now, to just reassure that in your child within us, that we've got everything we need and we're okay.

Katlin Doyle: Yeah. So beautiful.

Stu Murray: Yeah, it's so beautiful. And I also think too about the balance of the sacred feminine and masculine within us. and your journey right now is such a beautiful embodiment of that because on one side I think of the sacred feminine, which is this energy that allows us to trust, to surrender, to be patient and step into that space or that field where infinite potential and possibility lies.

But then there's also the sacred masculine, which is our ability to act on the lessons and the impulses and these deep desires that emerge within us, as you were referencing earlier. And so I think there's [00:31:00] really this straddling and balance that we need to do to be able to not just get too feminine and sit back and wait for everything and not be too masculine, where we're trying to force everything but this, you know, walking in both sides of that where we can.

Know when there's the time to trust and the time to step back and then the time to, okay, I've got all the downloads I need, now it's time to birth this baby.

Katlin Doyle: Yes. I had an astrology reading I was telling you before we called and I love astrology and I've never actually got a reading before.

And one of the things that the astro I was working at was really sharing with me about my gift. So my son is in Leo and my moon is in Sagittarius, but they are in the 12th and the fourth house, which are Waterhouses and they're trending each other exactly to the degree. So she was expressing that I have these, [00:32:00] my son, which is very, my masculine, this embodiment is in this watery house.

And then my moon. Is the feminine energy in a fire sign, but also in a watery house. And they're trending each other in this beautiful energy flow, really supporting each other. And so she was telling me about this and she's like, I sense you're very balanced in your masculine and feminine. She's like, are you taking this for granted?

I was like, I guess so, you know, . And it was this moment of reflection of realizing, , I feel very feminine in my essence. Yet I at times feel overly masculine in the way that I'm executing and owning a business and being in leadership and that's all beautiful and it's coming from a very feminine place.

And it was this moment of like, wait. At times I feel imbalanced. And I remember no, I always am. I balanced. A [00:33:00] friend recently was speaking with me about why I'm leaving my business was like, oh, I just feel like, one of the reasons I feel so am I masculine. And she's like, you , you look, you seem like the most feminine person in the way you run.

This is so feminine. It wasn't until after I reflected that like, oh yeah, like I am quite balanced within it and have to give myself a little bit more credit for that balance cuz it doesn't come easy to a lot of people. Right. Like it is a very delicate matter of osculating between the two and finding our place.

And yeah, it's, it can be tricky and it can be beautiful work, but it's something I know will be a really large part of this continuation of my journey is to really hone. My deep femininity and continue to share that in a really beautiful way, yet take a little bit more of my masculine essence too, to execute and really [00:34:00] deliver whatever it is that's coming forth.

Stu Murray: I see that in you entirely and I've seen that from when I met you as I found you. Both you and your sister are such beautiful embodiments and expression of that divine feminine. And I could feel it. My masculine was already at ease. My self talk, I was hyper conscious of this and aware that I had been beating myself up and praying for that feminine within me and realizing.

Yeah, that's important to cultivate that within me. And it's also beautiful when I can see that reflected outside of me, and I saw that in you both. And I've also appreciated your ability to organize events and bring people together and to act on these impulses and desires and dreams and pull them from that dream world and into reality and literally changing the space around you.

And so I have very clearly seen this beautiful embodiment of somebody who [00:35:00] really dances well between that sacred masculine and the sacred feminine within yourself.

Katlin Doyle: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I'm grateful for that. It's so funny when she's like, do you take this for granted? Completely right.

And it's only now where I'm holding space and organizing these beautiful events, it's so natural for me. I don't think about it once, right? It's so just in my nature, and that is a gift. And like it's, I'm so grateful for that gift because, I feel like a bridge for so many people and for to really be this vessel to provide space for people to find themselves and connect with one another and with the beauty that we can create when we are in community.

And, yeah. I feel so humble, right? I wanna shy away when, um, I'm not the type of leader that's like, I'm a leader, right? It's the thing I've had to naturally accept in my life that's, this is the way I've always been. [00:36:00] I've looked to my childhood and I look to high school and it's always been this person who's gathering the people together and taking initiative and, now in a deeper way within community and ceremony and ritual and it's magical but, sometimes my humility can get in the way, which is I think is a good thing too. But yeah. Owning the gift

Stu Murray: yeah, it's a double edged sword where it's like, I see so many. People who lack entirely humility and I've been sharing this with Emily, I'm not sure if I shared it with you, but it's been something that's come through quite often.

And I think we're in this age of that, perhaps with the social media and this external outlets that we have to be able to put things out there. But when you're good at something, you'll be telling people mm-hmm. . But when you're great, people will be telling you.

Mm. And I think there's [00:37:00] something magical about a quiet confidence that comes through where we don't need to reassure anybody or let everybody know about all of our amazing gifts, or all the things that we're doing is like to be really tapped in and to be of highest service. To reach our point of highest contribution and to strive to be in that because we know that everything is interconnected and the more that I can tap into my place, the highest service and my highest potential, well then I can serve the whole.

And that creates this beautiful feedback loop. And I think it's in this culture that has been reduced to a mechanistic understanding of the world where whatever exists is only what can be measured. And this really part and peace idea of understanding, well, we're going to then try and create a sense of self-worth out of the things that we do.

And so [00:38:00] then we're gonna want to tell everybody about it and just let them know how great we are. But the true leaders and the visionaries and the ones who light my heart on fire are the ones who are just doing it because they know it's the thing to do.

Katlin Doyle: I totally agree. I've been in space with many other people and been a participant in many circles and many places around the world and can recall all of the moments where I've sat with someone who's aligned in their heart and their essence and is really, like you said, being of service.

Cuz someone who is truly in alignment and being of service has something powerful to share, but nothing to share at all. In the ways in which I like to facilitate space, I want you to be having a powerful experience and I want you to be making connections to your heart and to other people.

It's nothing about me. I just have this ability to powerfully open a container to hold the space in a very [00:39:00] protective amnt where. Everyone can feel like they can really let go into who they are. And those are the people who I hold onto who have been my leaders, right? It's like where it's not about them in any way.

They are really just able to beam their light, inspire people to be who they truly are and make that reflection rather than, try and, you know, there's some people who are like, this is who I am and you need to listen to me and you need to receive all my wisdom.

And they're not making space for people to be who they are. They're just trying to like really create followers. And that is not in any way, which, what I align with.

Stu Murray: Totally that's resonated with me for so long as well, Katlin and I, yeah. I think I've gotten more clearer on understanding that and what came through there for me was this idea of the [00:40:00] guru versus the guide. Like, okay, do I want people around me to put me on a pedestal and validate my self worth?

Or do I really genuinely believe that they need to find their own unique gifts to be of highest contribution so that all of us together can be lifted up? Because I know that a rising tide lifts all boats, and so how can I help create the gravity pull that's gonna lift the tides up here to be able to pull everybody together and one thing, even talking with you and others who are on a similar path is I've become so disillusioned with the Woo. I'm a yoga teacher. I've been in many different spiritual settings and contexts, and so many times I feel like barfing in my mouth, where there's just like, there's so much shit that is being shoveled and it's like, oh, just lada da da. You know, all these beau beautiful poetic things that are [00:41:00] being shared, but. There's an essence, there's an energy that I can feel in my body beyond any word that anybody could ever communicate. And it's those moments that make my hair stand up on end. It's those times where somebody is embodied in what they're doing, that what they are is so loud that I can, I hear it through their entire embodiment of their being. And that is the clean mirror. That's the true space holder. That is the true place. And riffing with you on all of these, you know, esoteric concepts always also feel so grounding because it's rooted in practice, it's rooted in experience, and that's something that I look for and have now like a bullshit meter that kind of guides me forward, where it's like I'd rather hang out with the farmer or somebody in the back country who doesn't practice any of this, but practices being kind to their neighbor than somebody who's got their head in the clouds and isn't even walking on the earth and. Professing all of these beautiful [00:42:00] things, but not living it. Totally.

Katlin Doyle: And I wholeheartedly agree. I think when we begin our spiritual journey, we all fly up into the cosmos for a little bit, right? And it's like whether or not you write down and I grew up on a farm in a very rural part of this island, and I know you can relate.

So I think it is that like I am from the salt of the earth. I've lived through the cycles that is my life being with nature. And I think when people don't have that connection to the earth and what is truly life in our, you know, I saw this meme and I'm sure you've seen it and I'm gonna totally not communicate it right, but it was something about like, oh honey, I'm ascending. And she's like, no, you're just on grounded, right? This whole path of 5G reality and this like ascension symptom. So I'm like, honey, you're just not eating food. And you're like, [00:43:00] you're not grounded in reality. I love how deep I can go with people who've got their feet on the ground, who are living this path and who are just real, right?

We can talk about whatever else we wanna talk about. It doesn't always have to be this path of spirituality, right? I can dance in all of the different worlds and then come back to. This part and of myself who is so devoted to this path. But, I look around, I've got so many friends and so many people in my life who are, you know, the guy who builds boats down the road and these farmer friends and so many people in my life that's not defined this little bubble.

And I think that is so beneficial.

Stu Murray: Yeah. That's hilarious. I've got this whole picture of this guy just floating, but he's just withering away. [00:44:00] Yeah. Not even eating.

Katlin Doyle: Exactly. I don't wanna judge, but oh yeah.

We're just having a good time. No, I.

Stu Murray: Yeah. Totally. And to each their own. Where, wherever there's judgment is just a projection of my own insecurities. And that's where I learned about in the spiritual path is I wanna flaunt my own virtue and my own path, and like I'm more righteous than somebody else. That's a low to horse shit. Wherever I experience judgment, that's an opportunity for me to clean my own mirror. That's an opportunity for me to look at where I'm not confident enough. Because if I love myself enough, and if I'm confident enough, I'm not gonna judge somebody else for watching a television or doing whatever they do.

Like, fuck it. That people should be able to live whatever life they wanna live, and I don't need to even speak the same vocabulary. Terms like God or Spirit or all these things can be so loaded and carry so much baggage these days. And I use those terms openly and liberally, but mm-hmm. , what [00:45:00] it means to me is like, If you believe there's God or spirit or any of these things, your terminology means a lot less to me than how you treat things in the material world and how you show up.

Like how do you treat your neighbor is gonna be one of the best ways that I understand that you are connected to God.

Katlin Doyle: Yeah, I totally agree.

Stu Murray: And speaking of space holding and coming back to that, because that's been a big theme. You've been on this incredible journey of space holding in various ways and various pathways, and I'd love for you to come back and share about some of the women's work you've been doing and the cow ceremonies.

Could you share just, a little brief version of what some of that initiation into the realm of space holding has been for you?

Katlin Doyle: Yeah, it's been a long journey as well. Initially when I was beginning my [00:46:00] path, starting to travel and explore parts of the world, explore parts myself, landing in ceremony in Women's Circle was so powerful for me and so transformative to be heard, to be witness, to be seen, and to listen to other women's journeys and the way we always mirror each other with the way we're always moving through this collective space of transformation. I know you can relate and it's still happening.

You sit in a circle of humans in ceremony. Everyone expresses where they are. There's this collective thread that always weaves itself. And I found that so powerful. And when I first went to some of my initial ceremonies and circles, there's, I felt that authenticity light up with in me say, oh, this is a part of me, this, I have this part of myself, that just saw the ways that I could bring this to my own communities and the way I [00:47:00] could, so naturally be in this space of leadership and.

And so I began, just very organically sharing circle and ceremony with my community. And kaka is a big part of it in the beginning cuz I was on this journey of chocolate and going deep within the realms of the kaka spirit and journeying and learning so much through spending a lot of time in Costa Rica.

So yeah, back in 20 15, 20 16, I started hosting weekly women's circles and was just like this powerful, powerful container for myself and for community. And we built its sacred realm of sisterhood that is still thriving today and it's ebbed and flowed and changed and. Later in after that, my sister Emily and I, we partnered up and started sharing a program called [00:48:00] Sisters and Cycles of Beauty.

And that was rooted more in herbalism and the cycles of the earth. So that would be like a seasonal immersion for where women would sign up for the season and we would journey through the medicine of the cycle of the wheel and receive the herbs that are showing themselves to us, around us and in nature at those times.

And that reflection of nature to our own path and to the herbs and to the earth. And that was such a powerful and beautiful journey, which isn't over. It's just again, on this rebirth cycle. You know, my sister, you know her, she's amazing. And we work so, so incredibly together, holding space and sharing.

We're very complimentary. It has evolved so much and cycled so much over the years to huge, 40 people ceremonies with Kacal to now my interest is more and really [00:49:00] intimate spaces where people can go really deep and or really devoted to diving really deep, and going the distance.

And again, this ever cycling reflection of where I'm at and how I show up into the community is always exciting to explore and yeah, I love it.

Stu Murray: Wow. I've heard so much about the sisters and cycles and have just been blown away at the beauty and the creative expression that you and Emily had hold out of that.

And for listeners, I'm wondering if you could just kind of dive a little bit deeper into what one of those experiences might look like.

Katlin Doyle: Yeah. So what it would look like is, you sign up for the whole season, so you're with the same group of women that travel from, you know, spring to summer, summer to fall, et cetera.

And we generally like to [00:50:00] offer each session around the portals of Equinox or the cross quarter celebration, sa belting, the summer and winter solstice is, and then working with the moon and the cosmos as well. And the essence of what we do is we work with herbs and plants individually, and so we sit with what would someone would call the tea.

But for us it's so much more. We work with the plant spirit directly, so we make a really beautiful ceremonial beverage of whichever plant we choose to work with. We've worked with, oh my God, so many, and we like to cycle through them to see, each year what comes back again. And that's beautiful.

So we sit and we consciously connect with that plant and we ask, you know, what does this plant have to teach us? My sister Emily, is an herbalist, so she knows [00:51:00] extensively about herbs. The way that we both love to learn about herbs most is about really just receiving the medicine of the plant before knowing any of the scientific information that you can find in books or on the internet.

So that's what we really promote to women as well, and that is also a great tool to develop our intuition and to hone our skills of listening, like we've already spoke about, is to sit with this plant and be in silence and feel the way it feels in our body, and listen for the messages that come through in the quiet tube of just being, and if you're a visual person, see which visuals are coming through, what images and which visions are pouring through our inner well and then we just gather that and we see what comes and we share in circle [00:52:00] usually afterwards. And from that space of sharing, what came up for us is like so much where the magic is created and where we see these threads woven between each of us that is in direct relation to one another, direct relation to what is happening on collective level.

And it's just powerful portal for us to be witnessed to share our own heart and what we're going through. And just to move through stuff together. My friend recently was talking about a book he's reading and he really wants me to read it and he is mentioned it a few. now. And recently we were together and he showed me and I opened up the book and I landed on a page, it just had a direct quote.

It said, ceremony is never finished until it is shared. And I so loved that. Like we can do so much of our own ritual and ceremony, and [00:53:00] that's powerful when it's individual, but like when we come together and it's shared, that is like when we can go to the depths, right? I am blown away at what has happened in some of these spaces.

It's like unfathomable the depths we have gone together and the trust we've developed in these sisterhood spaces. And that power of sharing space is, it's so incredible. Yeah, so there's a little

Stu Murray: Oh my gosh. I feel inspired just listening to that and honestly knowing both you and Emily, even all of this journey so far feels like just a seedling of the impact that you both will be having on the world because your presence and your power is just unfathomable.

And I'm just in honor and awe of both of you and the space that you create so, so humbly. Mm-hmm. And I'm excited to be able [00:54:00] to get to witness it all and kind of be along for that ride. And a few things that came up for me there, Katlin, is like, What you're doing, you're speaking from the place of, as an educator, myself and somebody who's contemplated what it means to teach and what it means to be able to be of service in such a way is not this idea of creating a dependence on the leader, on the teacher, but creating a space where somebody can step into their own power to step into their own ability to listen, to start to trust themselves and their inner guidance systems.

And to me it just rings so clear in how you speak in the kind of container that you create, that you are creating a space for people to step into themselves for people to see themselves more clearly. And even through the sisters and cycles, like two things that really came up is connecting to that plant world and the plants being a gateway to spirit.

Like this really [00:55:00] experiential connection to spirit and to open our hearts and. Also allowing people to tap into that intuitive guidance place. And from that, who knows? If we can be connected to spirit and trust the whispers and learn to listen to these whispers, I just think that blows open a world of infinite possibility for every single individual who can be touched by those experiences.

And so, diving into holding space, like what does holding space mean to you and what does that look like?

Katlin Doyle: Oh my goodness. I love that question. It is a huge question and it's expanded as I've developed and matured in this space. Holding space for me is like opening a container energetically, you know, I work with energy, with spirit in a powerful way of creating.

When we say container that can become a woo woo word, but it's a sacred [00:56:00] space, physical space or nature space. For me it's really casting a boundary, casting a circle, and asking my guides and my guardians to come and protect that space for anyone who's arriving to receive and feel safe and feel held.

And so as we open this sacred space, My main expression of people is that it's a safe space for them to express and share whatever they feel, whether that's emotion, whether that's story, and that whatever is shared in space. This is my number one rule. Would never, ever, ever leave the circle. You cannot go home and share.

What someone else expressed in that space. I don't promote going home and sharing what you've experienced and expressed in that space, cuz that, again, is a leak of that space. And so really reiterating that for people is very important for me to feel like people can just like, ugh, let go.

We don't have those [00:57:00] spaces in life very often unless you're going to therapy. And I think there's so much trauma around that. And especially in women, you're either in school with friends that aren't completely trustworthy and you share something and it becomes gossip and like that is so outdated, right?

And is like the farthest thing from the space. So for me it's really grounding . Grounding the energy and working with the elements. Working with the elements to clear the space if there's heavy energy. So inviting in the air to, to lift the water, to cleanse the fire, to purifying the earth to hold us is a really big part of my work.

And yeah, it's just a relationship I have with spirit to be able to move the energy, if any healers are in this space or listening, know that when you're working with someone, we move energy. And that's kind of what it is to hold space on a larger level. It's not so [00:58:00] much individually working with each person, but working with the energy of the space to cleanse out what's ready to be released.

And then to really welcome the feelings of connection and expression and really allow people to feel safe is the biggest part for me. We can't open, we can't find ourselves unless we feel safe again, coming back to that inner child.

Stu Murray: Totally. I agree with you that creating that safe container is the biggest thing, because we can't control what's going to come up in each individual. It's going to be a personalized, unique journey for each of them. And so the biggest thing is creating that space and being somebody who's.

Also contemplated and sat with this a lot myself in the different spaces I've created as an educator in the classroom, but a lot in the AcroYoga world and how vulnerable that gets when I'm trying to help people touch one another and in a constructive way and bring in [00:59:00] boundaries and bring in all of these different things.

It becomes really hard actually to create a safe space. The more vulnerable we get, the more attentive we have to be to the needs and the possible considerations of things coming up right. Because they do. The more we're able to let our guard down, the more we're opening space for who knows what can come through.

Mm-hmm. . And I think it's beautiful if we can get to the other side of that, but creating that, and in my journey of creating space, particularly in Aroyo guy, I started contemplating the idea. Claiming versus creating safe space. I became really conscious because it was brought to my attention that it could be almost a colonial patriarchal energy of saying this is a safe space.

Who am I to claim territory and pronounce that this is a safe space, rather than just creating as much to the abilities as possible [01:00:00] that I want to create that safe space, but I can't claim that because I'm not in control of how somebody else feels within that sphere. So I'm curious to hear your take on claiming versus creating safe space.

Katlin Doyle: Thank you for bringing that up. I've never thought of it in that way. Yeah, I don't feel like I'm, from the perspective of like, this is safe space. For me it's, it's hard to describe because it is so energetic, right? I really feel like I, when I'm inviting in, I want this to be safe space and I want people to feel safe space, I'm really weaving in like benevolent energy, benevolent beauty, right?

How can I show up as an embodiment of a really warm energy, a really warm [01:01:00] person, sister, you know, human connection and reflect that. I feel like I have a really mothering energy. And of course we don't always feel safe because, We always feel safe. Mm-hmm. , we're never gonna get to the sticky stuff.

I have to admit, there's been some really intense things we've processed in ceremony together, while I've held space and it at times didn't feel safe. But our ability and our maturity to talk it out, to realize that there is really ancient dynamics at play, like past life, things can come up that feel like, you know, it's really can be intense.

And so in a moment I may not feel safe, but as a space holder, how can I make sure that someone leaves and goes home and they feel safety, they feel like they have someone to talk about what they've [01:02:00] experienced. That they feel that they can. You know, feel like their energy is not still open.

It's closed, it's contained. They've moved through that process. You know, I've been in space where the container had not been held properly and there was lots of energy leaks and there wasn't this sense of safety. So I'd never like, thought of it in this colonialistic way of like, this is a safe space.

Cuz clearly it may not be. And I've totally have people that have come to my space and not resonated. Right. They're like, this is not for me and I don't take that on. Cuz they may have felt safe, they may have not. But I have done everything that I know to do in my capability and my ability to create what I believe to be the safest environment for everyone.

And that will ever evolve, right? Mm-hmm. .

Stu Murray: I love that. Yeah. Just being aware. It's like, well, the best I can do is do my best to create the [01:03:00] space. And I can't claim that or force anybody. You can't force safety. It's very paradoxical. It's very much in the intention to create and to hold and to be there.

And something you mentioned as you were talking is challenging dynamics coming up, navigating weirdness, discomfort between people and that comes up so much when we have the courage to sit in ceremony when we have the courage to show up more vulnerably. And it also has been showing up in our in a growing sense, there seems to be, depending on where you go, if you look at the news or in certain social media spheres, like I don't see it as much day to day in my interpersonal reactions, but in the general populace, there seems to be a growing sense of challenging dynamics amongst us. And I'm curious to hear your perspective from navigating it in the social world, to navigating it in ceremony and [01:04:00] just interpersonally, how do we really leverage communication in a healthy way to, to navigate these challenging dynamics?

Katlin Doyle: Totally. A skill. I'm still learning and in a big way, I feel like I come from this from many different perspectives, right. There's the sisterhood challenges that arise in my life. And on a side note, I'm on two different boards, uh, for cooperatives and one of them is a much larger cooperative space, which brings a lot of challenge, right?

And so I've learned a lot in that space of like, okay, we're not gonna be able to please everybody, but how can we look at the best scenario for most people? So I've learned a lot of like how to work in that space and how to work more individually in personal space and ceremonial space with challenges and communicating and working [01:05:00] through that.

It's not easy, right? We're still learning how to be in that way. I've had several, opportunities to bring up conflict and have conflict brought up to me. And for me, it's just humbly being in a space of like, okay, I know this may not be perfect, but this needs to be talked about and how can we work through it and how can I be open to seeing where I might have been in a place of lack of integrity and how that has affected someone and just really have the willingness to listen to receive. to then share my own perspective and work through the conflict. And then on the other end for me, which is like more challenging, is bringing up conflict and confrontation when I feel like my boundaries have been crossed and, you know, a personal story which I'm working on and work [01:06:00] through recently, which has that and I'm so proud of myself, right? It took a lot of courage. It takes courage, right?

It takes time, it takes practice and it takes. Thinking something over? Well, for me it does, and I'm sure maybe it'll get easier, but conflict's just challenging in this lifetime. We're not taught how to deal with it in proper ways in our childhood and in our schooling. And so we're learning right now as adults in most cases how to deal with it.

And in my experience, it's never as challenging as our mind likes to think generally. In my experience, like it's always much more graceful and much more beautiful when you just openly connect with someone about conflict, about sticky energy. It's when we get wrapped up in our mind and in our own stories of what [01:07:00] is happening, that that's when it is really most challenging.

Stu Murray: Oh my gosh. That's bringing up so much for me. It's a weird paradox that we get stuck in because we have a challenge expressing what's alive in us and in order to like, okay, there's a feeling that's coming up. How do I connect that feeling to a need within me without externalizing, without blaming, without trying to find what's wrong with the external situation with somebody?

How do I connect that feeling that's coming up inside of me, of a need that I have and being able to express that? Because what often happens is I'll have this feeling, I'll have something come up. Most times I can't even really connect that to a need that's within me. I'm often off blaming somebody else or pointing out what's wrong, but if I can, I'm having a hard time expressing what that need is to somebody else.

And it's like there's this shame and judgment that comes up inside of our own head. It's like, oh, [01:08:00] well they're gonna think less of me for thinking this thing, or they'll think I'm, you know, insert whatever story there. And really it's like the second we are able to open up to that, especially around somebody who respects us and respects our boundaries and cares about our health and wellbeing.

So much of that shame and judgment can just dissolve like sugar and water because all of a sudden it's like, okay, I just expressed this deep fear that I had within me, this thing that I couldn't even hold myself. And this person just holds it with so much. They've created this container, this space, and I think a lot of that comes back to self-worth and self-respect.

The way we treat ourselves and the boundaries we set up for ourselves is going to create the container and the dynamic in which other people are going to relate to us.

Katlin Doyle: Yeah, that's so beautifully expressed as you're speaking and reflecting.

Conflict and challenge is so connected, in relation to [01:09:00] intimacy. Intimacy not in a sexual way, but like I bring this to you and we are intimately connecting and through my conflict resolutions with people have only created more intimate connections with that person.

Cuz I've showed such a vulnerable and raw part of myself and they have received that and shared a vulnerable and raw part of themselves. And you just meet each other on this new depth and new level. And it's so interesting as we look at it in that way. We could see, you know, like is it our fear of conflict or are we more so afraid of the intimacy that comes when we have to go to those spaces, right?

Stu Murray: Yeah. Yeah, that's brilliant. And a thing that came up for me as you're speaking there that I haven't really contemplated too much is it's almost that these things seem to come at odds in our head where, because fundamentally we have this deep, [01:10:00] deep desire to belong and to find connection that's just part of this fundamental human drive.

And it almost seems that there's this story within us that conflict will become the barrier to connection and the barrier to deeper sense of belonging, where in fact, Often that conflict and that honesty and that rawness is actually what will bring us deeper into that intimacy. And yet it seems to be these layers of conditioning where it's like, oh, I've got this conflict.

Maybe it's just better if I swallow that and I'll maintain the peace that way. I'll just swallow what's alive in me and not express that. And that is, in truth, the actual barrier to connection. It's not this leaning into the discomfort. Because if, again, if somebody really loves us and they really care about us, then they're gonna hold that space to listen. And yet it seems to be this perpetual challenge.

Katlin Doyle: Totally. Well, I mean, we could go so deep in this, but you go back to the inner child and say like, okay, in which ways was our [01:11:00] love dependent on us being good? Right? Like when we were a challenging little child at times. How were we held in that moment, right?

So where we cast away cause our parents couldn't handle us in that moment, or it was like we were acting out in a public place and that became bad. So then we associate challenge in our adult life with being bad, right? Like it's so deep and it's so multilayered, so there's so much that we have tied up in it rather than, you know, you can see someone who is maybe dealing with their child in a very conscious way if they're going through a challenge.

Can we bring that love, that devotion, that deeper presence instead of getting angry and fed up and impatient. So it's this another mirror to bring forth into these deeper connections in our adult life. [01:12:00]

Stu Murray: I love where you took that so much. And I think when we can show up in that way and when we can create these bonds and these connections where we can express these things that we're judging and shaming ourselves for and that we internalize and that gets held in the light of unconditional love from somebody else, it can literally heal our traumas and start to shift our relationship with ourselves and obviously with others.

And that's just this beauty of creating these open, healthy relationships. There's nothing more painful than seeing, than being in it or even seeing others battling each other with their own. The two inner childs just meet and they start raging and it's like, oh, I know. It's so painful to, to be in that or to see others in that.

And you're like, oh, it's just these two young hurt kids fighting each other.

Katlin Doyle: That just went,

Stu Murray: even adult

Katlin Doyle: and a healthy adult, not when he was, you know, operating on trauma bond . [01:13:00]

Stu Murray: Yeah. I read your bio, Caitlin, and I think it's one of the more beautiful bios I've ever read, to be honest with you. And you wrote at the start, a devote of the sacred, of the living cycles of life, of the beauty of all.

Wow. What does that mean to you when you express that, when you put that out? What does it mean to be a devote of the sacred and to be devoted to the beauty of all?

Katlin Doyle: Well, that is my essence, right? That's when I strip away all the noise in my life and that feels like an expression of my soul, really.

I feel like the sacred is in all things, and it's our perception of noticing, just how beautiful and how sacred this life is. Like you know, being a fucking human, like that's so sacred. [01:14:00] to me, it's like a miracle, right? We get so bogged down about life, and I live in a way that I believe that this life is so sacred and it's a weighted word for some, for me, it's just it's beauty, it's wonder, it's the mysticism of life. It's the commitment to something more magical than what the classic textbook life is told we should be. I think there's so much more to this life, and I know you did too. And for me, that's the sacred, that's the essence of the sacred and to live in devotion to beauty.

Like why not? We have the gift of experiencing beauty and seeing beauty as human beings, and so we not, do as much as we can to create that. Beauty is not only just like the physical beauty of our life, but like the beauty that we can see in nature [01:15:00] and in one another. And relationship and our connection to what we love.

Stu Murray: Uh I feel emotional just hearing that because it just makes me, it makes me think like I tap into the possibility of a more beautiful world where we all live in such a way. I feel tears well up, honestly, because I know that that's something that we're all longing for and I pray that each of us can step closer to living in such a way, because I know that is the birth of the more beautiful world.

And so I appreciate that so much and you bringing that intention and making it external and clear and explicit, just like, yeah, I feel that. I feel that sister.

Katlin Doyle: Yep. We deserve it.

Stu Murray: We do. I've got one last [01:16:00] question for you as we start to wrap up. The end of your buy, you said living life is ceremony, also fucking beautiful and Emily and I, we've been talking a lot about this and ceremony's been a theme even throughout this conversation.

And what's that mean to you? Living life as ceremony?

Katlin Doyle: Oh God, it's everything. It's waking up in the morning and giving thanks for life and in each moment that I can, and especially in the morning, creating intention. Ceremony for me is intention. It is this ability to craft our life via our thoughts, our beliefs, our actions, and attuning.

So every day, starting my day in prayer and gratitude for life and connecting myself to earth and connecting myself to the guides that flow through me in this life and in every moment that I can. And that I remember just connecting [01:17:00] to that inner flame that exists within me the light of my soul, and doing as much as I can throughout my days to live in ceremony, to make offerings of gratitude to the earth.

At the big part of my practice is playing, prayers to the earth. It is just making every moment intentional, right? As much as I remember . And I think this act of living within the cycles, that's so big for me, living devoted to the seasons, living through what Autumn has, the medicine of winter.

And when you devote yourself to that path and the path of the cosmos with the new moons and the full moons and all of the other aspects of astrology, like life has no other choice but to become this ceremony. For me, ceremony is the ebbs and flows of energy and when you come back to it, it's living intentionally.

Living with prayer, living with gratitude, [01:18:00] and love in my heart, and a willingness to go to the places that are deep and true and beautiful and sometimes uncomfortable.

Stu Murray: Uh, yeah, I think that's so beautiful and I think it's an incredible thing to bring into the awareness, the forefront of attention in such a way, and as you say, living into that uncomfortableness or uncertainty. Emily and I had an experience not long ago where we opened up ceremony very intentionally and created a space, and we had obviously some underlying expectations around what that could feel like.

And particularly Emily was very challenged with what came up. Mm-hmm. . And it was so interesting because, the whole time it was like, oh, I, this isn't what I had expected to, to, you know, kind of riffing off on these mind trails and [01:19:00] then projecting that onto me, being upset with it, not meeting expectations.

And in my heart feeling, well, this, this is beautiful, whatever it is. Let's be here. And as we go to close up ceremony and Emily. Takes the lead on that we finish and she's, she just, let's go this big sigh and I can feel the weight off of her shoulders. And she's like, oh, we're in ceremony.

I've been creating all these expectations,

Katlin Doyle: I know. He was like,

Stu Murray: oh man, I forgot. I forgot. We're in ceremony and I've been wanting this to be a certain way or have a certain outcome. And it's like, I forgot that I asked for this to just be, yeah, I forgot that I have to lean into the uncertainty, lean into the discomfort, lean into all the things that also come with ceremony, because it's not always blissful and graceful and full of beauty.

It's also full of, [01:20:00] you know, it's all of these challenges that can come up. And so I just thought that was such a beautiful moment that stuck with me as well. That's kind of accentuated, the wholeness and the totality of ceremony.

Katlin Doyle: Oh my God, I love that so much. I can just see her saying that and making that realization that's you know, we vocalize that every moment before ceremony. Cuz it's like sometimes the weight of people's expectations is just so much. Right? But then yes. To carry that into our life, so, okay. Live life as ceremony, it's like, okay, I. I must release expectations because if I'm living in ceremony, you're stepping into that space of wonder and mystery and possibility.

And if I expect my life to be, I'm not leaving space for the ceremony to unfold, right? Mm-hmm. , beautiful addition to that conversation.[01:21:00]

Stu Murray: So good. Oh man. So anybody listening who's like, oh, ha's incredible, I want to talk to her, I want to dive in more. Where could they go to learn more about you and to connect? Um,

Katlin Doyle: so you could go to my website, it's I'm sure you'll link it somewhere or I'll, yeah, it'll be, you'll link it.

and I share a lot on Instagram. A lot of like my. Poetic musings and share a lot of where my events will be happening. And that's Caitlin and Doyle Instagram handle.

Stu Murray: Yeah. Amazing. Cool. Is there any last things you'd like to leave for listeners before we sign out?

Katlin Doyle: Hello, girl. God, trust the mystery, trust the little nudges and do the excavation work that [01:22:00] it takes to be in that place of trust and knowing, easier said than done, but it's fun, you know, make it fun.

I've had moments of fear that come up and moments of like, oh, what am I doing? And then I bring the joy back into it and I bring the wonder and I bring the like, oh, you know, blank canvas. So, yeah, cuz that's present. So present in my life that's just there, that's advice deep to the heart of my own soul right now, my own heart.

Stu Murray: I know that will resonate with many, especially since that's, that's a lived thing and I can feel that. Mm-hmm. I think that's a constant reminder that I need, despite the amount of times I've been rewarded with the bounty of trust, I continue to find myself in wavering faith at times. And so I think that's a beautiful reminder to continue to tap into.

Yeah. Kaylin, it is an honor to be on this [01:23:00] journey with you, sister. I mm-hmm. am just perpetually expanded and excited every time we get to connect, and I'm stoked for wherever this space and possibility that you're making is going to lead into, because I know it's gonna be some big fucking things, and I'm excited to, to be a part of it.

And I'm blessed to live this life with you. It's been and continues to be a real journey and a blessing.

Katlin Doyle: It is such an honor. Stew, I love you and thank you so much for this beautiful opportunity. We could have been Sure. Went on and on and on, but I think we nailed a lot of magic for people and so grateful and that Yeah.

To walk this path with you to see what our future, Hmm. Entails and continues to offer us. It's incredible.

Stu Murray: Thank you. Beautiful things. I can feel it. I [01:24:00] can feel it. And this is only part one,

Katlin Doyle: okay. Part two. Many more. Many more.

Stu Murray: I love you, Katelyn Woman.

Katlin Doyle: Thank you. Love you. Yeah, thank you,

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