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Creating Communities Rooted in Trust and Respect W/ Margaux Khoury #16

Updated: Sep 20, 2022

This episode, with Margaux Khoury, touches on so many interesting topics including: creating new systems based on trust and respect; the value of being able to admit we were wrong and being open to change our minds; reaching the highest point of contribution while nurturing what matters most to us; and the perils of censorship. So many juicy ideas for you to sink your teeth into!


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Margaux Khoury 0:00

It's really the ability to have these beautiful, levelheaded conversations and meet someone where they're at. And it's not about this destination that we're trying to get to. It's not like oh my god, the end all is okay be plant based or be you know, stop doing this. And it's not about that. For me. It's about everyday when we learn more, we do better.

Stuart Murray 0:26

Welcome to episode number 16 of the connected movement podcast. I'm your host, Stu Murray. Are you disillusioned with our old outdated systems and stories? Are you tired of the growing polarization in society? So am I my aim is to engage in and unpack conversations with people from all walks of life as a means of CO creating a way forward for humanity. Today's guest is Margo Corey. Margo has started a wide range of companies and eco brands. Her experience is vast from starting and selling a juice bar to funding a global 100% plastic free vegan company. She is certified in holistic plant based nutrition with a focus on longevity. She has studied what the longest living people on Earth have in common and loves helping mothers look younger and live longer. Margo has naturally become an advisor for ethical startups, especially those wanting to be vegan for the environment, human health and animal welfare, and she works with companies who want to make an impact. I really hope you enjoy this episode. And before we dive in a thank you to our sponsor, Karen Phytoplankton. Many daily discomforts are the result of malnourishment, you may be malnourished, if you crash in the afternoon, you have digestive issues, you get lots of headaches, have trouble sleeping, you have muscle or joint pain, have trouble concentrating and so on. The good news is the right supplementation can help with this. I've personally benefited from using Karen Phytoplankton, which has helped me find more energy in the afternoons and beat that crash, you can find Karen Phytoplankton products at Costco locations or online at the Karen Without further ado, let's dive in.

Thanks so much Margo, for taking the time to come on and chat, I really appreciate it. And as I was looking through your bio, I just was blown away at the career you've already had. And the amount of things you've been involved in and continued to be involved in, in so many different fields. And when I was looking in, it seems like a lot of it started at this ecological aspect about starting to change the way we interact and care about the planet. And I'm wondering, you know, what was that shift? What kind of brought you into that space in the first place?

Margaux Khoury 2:58

Yeah, that's a great question. So I didn't grow up that way, we grow up very, very differently from how we live now. I think a lot of it had to do with my travels. So I have been lucky enough to have seen many parts of this world, from Thailand to I lived in Japan for a year and a half. I lived in Costa Rica and various places. So I think a lot of it comes from my curiosity as to how these people are living and what brings us all together sort of, you know, what, what, what global health is or what, why some of us live a very privileged life. And what we do here in these countries affects everyone all over the world. So that's kind of, you know, high level, how I got into it. And then just issue after issue came up and how I really just was interested in in solutions, right? So for me, there's, as you know, you and I have talked about this, there's so many things we can so many problems, we can focus on so many issues, and so many things that aren't necessarily good for us humans, or anyone in the world that's happening due to big corporations, government influence and all that. But I really want to focus on the solutions for this and try to be part of some organizations that are already working really hard on that. So

Stuart Murray 4:22

I love that. You know, as an educator, I'm always left with that question. Okay, well, here's all of this information. You know, we're aware of the wicked problems, all of these challenges that we're facing. And so often we stop there, but I've learned to always ask that question. So what, now that I know this information, what do I do with that? And clearly, you've been implementing solutions. I noticed one of the first ones you did was starting a juice bar. Just diving in and getting people healthy that way. Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing.

Margaux Khoury 4:54

Thank you. Yeah, that's like it's not it wasn't like I never dreamt of owning a juice bar was you No, like, that's not something I dream about or passionate about. But it just so happened the town we were in where I grew up didn't have one. And we had been juicing heavily at the time. So juice, meaning just for everyone listening, it's not like juice to buy in the store where it's just processed, or pasteurized or whatever, it's literally slow pressing juice so that all the nutrients come out of it and go in and are really, really well absorbed into your body. So for a lot of people, it's not anecdotal anymore, the science is out there. And the evidence shows that juicing is actually so healthy for the body, among many other things. So so we did is do Yeah, we started the juice bar, and then we ended up getting it to a decent level and then selling that company. So I have started and sold some companies.

Stuart Murray 5:48

That's incredible. Yeah, yeah. So you started quite a few companies and sold them off as you've gone. And I think that's amazing, you know, bringing that entrepreneurial spirit, coming up with solutions to some of these problems and turning that actually into an opportunity. I find, perhaps some of these days we've been focused in on the deficit mindset. And I think it's really empowering when we can look at these challenges, but then see, the opportunity isn't that like, financially, environmentally, socially, there's so much opportunity, where so many of us see lack the tremendous amount of change

Margaux Khoury 6:23

There are. And so I really encourage anyone with an entrepreneurial mind, we can do so much. So entrepreneurs or corporations can literally destroy, right the world, as we've seen from forest destruction, things like that, or we have the power to do the opposite, which is regenerate and bring life back, even though the earth will do that on its own. But we do have a lot of potential to do that. And if I may add one thing here, because so much, so much information is like, Okay, you need to do this. So you need to eat that, or you need to stop using plastic straws, or whatever it is, which was a very successful campaign and a huge distraction. But we also forget that the responsibility should lie on the on the shoulders of the companies and the corporations offering the product. So it's hard to say it's our choice to vote with our dollars and make sure it's healthy. But companies well, like like my past companies, but also like future companies really their responsibility to provide products that are eco for what it's worth, and also do as least harm as practically possible.

Stuart Murray 7:33

Yeah, and you actually did that, from what I was reading, you started one company that had, like 100%, plastic free vegan, could you share a little bit more about what that was?

Margaux Khoury 7:43

That was an amazing company, I ran it for years. And it's 100% plastic free, which wasn't easy to do 10 years ago, because what happens is, is when companies try to do this, they realize very quickly how unbelievably expensive it is to offer this packaging. And then it's not sustainable for the company. Because we're you know, we're importing these these jars, which is still better than using plastic. The plastic is like a fraction of the price. So anything, you know, like, like, product you see on the shelf and plastic that's made by the company, it's very rare that we're going to offer something eco, but they're starting because the demand is there. But yeah, that was an amazing business. And we actually paused it during COVID. And looking now there's been some offers to buy this company because it's already you know, the brand is there. We have global global customers all over the world. And it's very popular raise money for it and everything but I'm thankful are really are not just passions shift. But also, our time here is limited. I know it's a cliche, but you know, we have limited time on Earth. And I want to make sure that my efforts are going to the greatest good. Like my return on my time investment needs to be pretty large these days for me to feel good about waking up every morning.

Stuart Murray 9:03

That's really interesting, actually, that that's something I've been meditating on quite a bit recently, as well. Like, I've been learning about essentialism, in this idea of us needing to recognize that there are trade offs, right, we live in this fast paced, hyper accelerated global world where it kind of be it you know, consciously right in our face, or subconsciously, this messaging is like, we can get all the things all the time, you know, whenever I want, and I can snap my fingers and have that and I want to have all the things Fear Of Missing Out is just rampant within our society. And so anytime we make a choice, there's trade offs, right and so it's knowing where we can be in the right moment the right time, with the right people doing the right thing. And that for me is like that's where if we can really sit with that and reflect and find what I've been calling the fuck yes, that because was our highest point of contribution. And so I really resonate with what you're saying around, you know, having to filter out because as I was looking through cheese, you've got a lot of things on the go. And that's, I feel like you have a magnetic personality where you could attract a lot of possibilities and opportunities that could land on your plate and like, how do you use that ability to kind of distinguish what feels like that right fit for you and your product? Well,

Margaux Khoury 10:27

I think people like us passionate people, or it's not always easy, because I want to say yes to some really, projects, I try to assess impact myself. Now in the last year, I've done a much better job because before, burnout is real, you know, and something called compassion. Fatigue is real. When you're in the space of Earth stuff, and you know, animal protection and all this stuff, it's like you get, you can only do so much. And we're not helping anyone, if we become that way, we're fatigued, and we're exhausted, and we have to take a long break to recover and heal, we're not helping, you know, we're only hurting ourselves. So I have decided just this year, just to really try to assess the impact. Like I said, like I call it the ROI, which just means the return on my time investment. And so this year, I've accepted some really amazing projects that have the potential to be super high impact for what it's worth. And, you know, one of them has to do at the government level, which is very rare for me, because I have very little faith in government change, you know, it's like watching policy changes, like watching through dry. And for anyone like me, that's not fast enough. And so, so I did take that on, and I don't regret it yet, which is good. And then, you know, some other projects, I also want to, believe it or not, I also make time for, you know, some some ceremony things and some healing. And so I just look at it as life has all these pillars, like a pillars of a house, the house, the house could not stay stable, without all the pillars being balanced or in check. And so my life or any person's life, it's not always 100% balanced, like our, you know, purpose or our say nutrition and health, you know, movement like that has to be in check for us to do well. Another one is community and friendships. So I really value the friendships in my life. And I want to I always make time to go away with someone or just have have a really deep connection, that's a huge part of my life. So I'm just saying, you know, it's, it's, it can't be all work, right. But luckily, my projects are a Passion Driven, and I'm satisfying that activist side of me, you know, so I'm combining my work and my activism, which which helps a lot.

Stuart Murray 12:42

I love that. And you know, even once you get into what would feel like a point of balance, the idea is that that central point that we're balancing on is always changing. And so it always takes constant check in, and reevaluation and, yeah, burnout is a real thing. And it continued to come back, you might learn that lesson in a certain way and get it in, it will come back in a whole other way that you thought you had it mastered. And there it is.

Margaux Khoury 13:07

There it is. And then often I talk to people, because I also advise right now I'm four companies. One of them's a nonprofit, and I'm kind of an advisor there because of my business history and experience. I'm so happy to contribute there. But I'll tell you that a lot of the time I see it almost every day, once the once the success, the business success happens, let's say, you know, the company has momentum and thrives. Oftentimes, other pillars or other important things in their life. Slow down, or, for example, romantic relationships. I see this all the time, when someone's really successful in their life, a lot of the time their romantic relationships fall fall to the wayside. And that's often really sad as well, because I mean, you know, it's so hard for everybody make time for everything, but if more leaders talked about how important all of the pillars are, like, I have a dear friend named Alex scharffen. And he's an amazing business person, huge company and he always talks about the number one most important thing in life is whatever you call it, the romantic relationship, the friendship the bog, the soulmate, you know, something like that. And that really resonates with me.

Stuart Murray 14:19

Yeah, it's nice to reflect on that and it's easy to get caught up in our realm of scarcity where money you know, we're always having to work always having to do these things. And so you get on that pursuit and before you know it, it's easy to put friendships and family and time in nature and time taking care of ourselves can often take a backseat and it's important to reflect on what success means to us and maybe that means more hours at work for some and maybe it means less for others but it is important to reflect on that and I'm I'm actually really curious about you know, you said earlier, you might have an allergy towards governmental initiative. So I could, I can relate to that because being part of a bureaucratic system for quite a while changed, never, ever happens fast enough, you know, the the institutional inertia just remain steady, right? It's just perpetuating the same paradigm over and over and over, which can be so incredibly frustrating. So I'm wondering what, what is this initiative? And why is it that you've been able to put that, you know, challenge aside and lean into this one in particular?

Margaux Khoury 15:33

I knew you'd go back there and enjoy talking about this for sure. It's going to I mean, to really dive in, it takes a few hours, but I'll just share that our any government that I've studied, there's very rare that their government's doing a good thing, for example. And it's not any individuals fault. This is a systemic problem. It stems from the funding the government gets the politicians, you know, how corporations huge, huge, huge like conglomerates have have the say, basically, they're like, you know the puppeteers. And so government funds, and we they subsidize industries that are literally killing everything. Okay, so the fossil fuel whatever we believe about climate change, it doesn't matter if fossil fuels destruction of the forest farming animals, which is a very touchy one that I'm very vocal about, because no one wants to talk about it. No one wants to be told what to eat and how to use their clothing. But it is the leading cause right now of the earth destruction and the destruction of the rainforest, the Amazon basically think like 90% of Amazonian countries, and the destruction over there is happening because we farm animals, and we're destroying it to grow grain, and to feed them when we could be feeding humans directly. Right. So anyway, all that to say, like this, this project that I'm a part of, it's so exciting, because it involves students. And I am part of an initiative called plant based futures. And they have multiple chapters, multiple universities, and one of them I'm working with is is Harvard. And these students are like blowing my mind. They're unbelievable. This is their summer, they're working on all these projects, one of them now we prioritize something going out to the White House, which is a video compilation, and the White House is holding a conference. So I'm Canadian, you know, supposed to be working in Canada. But here's this big thing happening. And like, I have to do this, you know, it's it's a major thing, because it's the first time in 50 years they've ever held a conference like this. It's the topic is hunger, nutrition and health. And so we are now creating this compilation video of most unbelievable people and voices, very recognizable people to say like a three to five second clip, and we're going to present it to the, to the White House just just before the conference. And so that is something that, um, that has the potential to be really high impact. Wow, yeah.

Stuart Murray 18:19

Wow. That's amazing how many people are coming together through this project?

Margaux Khoury 18:22

So our main team, we have, you know, the, the founders and we have myself, there's about probably six of us in the main team, and then the people coming together for the project. We're literally in outreach mode right now. But it's it's shaping up to be really exciting because we have people like Dr. Michael Clapper, Dr. Neil Barnard, also people from the community who've experienced hunger themselves, people who are hungry, who have experienced it are coming out to speak up about what is actually happening. It's not what anyone thinks. And then also, some celebrities are coming together. Like we have some unbelievable people on the list. So it's exciting. And when you reach out to people with a project that's coming from Harvard University, this chapter, you know, it's it's a main reason why people respond and want to be part of it. And also, they want to see change happen at that level. So it might take a few conferences, but here we are starting it. And so thanks for asking about that.

Stuart Murray 19:20

Yeah, that's amazing. That's quite something that you're a part of such a small core group and making that happen for such a big initiative. That's massive,

Margaux Khoury 19:28

And the university is behind it. So

Stuart Murray 19:31

Yeah, yeah. And I love what you said too, about, you know, not only including these, these big names, but when, I guess perhaps too, we just get caught up in thinking oh, well, you know, bringing all the experts bringing all these things, which is yes. And, yeah, let's bring in the people who are most directly affected by hunger. You want to learn about hunger, talk to hungry people. You want to learn you want to learn about health, talk to the people who are struggling with it, and I think that's some Much of that design that human human centered design is I had somebody on the other week who is talking about this and designing structures and systems that are not centralized and top down from the experts. But who are the people living in these conditions? Let's learn from them.

Margaux Khoury 20:17

This, all these issues are intersectional. And then what happens is, it's, it's so interesting, just like our human body, the doctors dissect the liver, from the heart from the brain, you know, we are a whole person, and we need to treat that body. That's a whole other topic that holistically, not just dissecting what's going on in one area, it's the same thing with our humanity in the world. And we're dissecting what's happening in Africa, and you know, Brazil and Canada. We, there's the borders aren't, they're just, they're just artificial borders, but not you know, we don't have borders, it's just air flowing through. And we have so what happens here affects everyone all over the world. So we have some, I just want to highlight this, because it's what you said is so true, and so important. We need to talk to people who've experienced this stuff. But also, we have some indigenous voices coming to light who these indigenous people often think we know, it's, it's a really touchy issue because they, you know, that it's not how it used to be, right? Indigenous people in the Arctic are not, you know, talking, we're not buying from the superstore, packaged plastic, you know, animal products, or whatever. So they're coming up and saying, We are the voices of indigenous plant based eaters, we don't consume animals, we honor our animals, this is what we do is we honor animals. And there's a it's unbelievable how many people are now speaking up on this issue. Because of not just climate change, but eating this way, we should really like not just food, okay, I'll just highlight this really quickly, because we should, human bodies are intended to eat food that is grown and not born. That's how I look at it, not food with eyes, ears, you know, heart. And this is a topic that, um, it's touchy, it's taboo, it's polarizing, but I'm really thrilled for this, this project and many others. And it's really easy to do, you know, it's really easy to make that switch, because that's the number one thing that is going to make a difference on this topic. So these indigenous people coming up, I'm super proud of them, because it's not easy in the community to talk about this, because they're seen as anti indigenous or whatever, when actually, they were all plant eaters to begin with, depending on the part of the world they're from.

Stuart Murray 22:34

So very interesting. I am not a full on plant eater myself, but I appreciate when we can meet in spaces and have open conversation. I think that's something that's lacking in this day and age. And when we're met with tremendous judgment, or criticism, and there's like an initial lack of understanding and we're entering into conversations and spaces with a preconceived agenda. And having, you know, trying to push something so hard that we're unable to listen to other people's perspectives, it also gets really challenging. So it's, and we're seeing that so much these days, you know, what, insert any issue here, and we enter conversations now with a goal to win or a goal to prove our point, rather than our goal to listen and to understand and work towards a collective truth that can serve all love that and yeah, that is something that I think is so important, and and something that can bring us so much more value than, you know, ultimately being right, because at the end of the day, what what will that serve other than, you know, boost our ego and give us a pat on the back?

Margaux Khoury 23:53

I think that's what I saw in you. From day one. Stu was like, Yeah, it's really the ability to have these beautiful, level headed, calm conversations, and meet someone where they're at. And it's not about this destination that we're trying to get to. It's not like oh my god, the end goal is okay, be plant based or be you know, stop doing this. And it's not about that. For me, it's about everyday when we learn more, we do better, the more the more we learn about something. I fully I you know, when I I'll just share with you 12 years ago, when I changed this way it was it was due to some footage that I saw. A dear friend did this documentary called Earthlings and I watched almost like there can't be there's no way that this human humans can be so cruel. There's no way this can actually happen. So what I did is for three years, I went undercover myself and I did this and I can only mentioned one of the organizations that hired me but other than that, it sort of was very tricky and and also very dangerous, you know? So I took some footage that I can ever look at it again. And it made me misanthropic. It made me really like have sort of a deep that's not healthy for me, it made me have a deep hate on for humans, because how can they? How can they treat another sentient being this way. And humane slaughter is a major myth. So if we're if you're paying more money, by the way for humanely raised animal flesh, or meat, or cage free eggs, that is the biggest line, the biggest myth on Earth, and they're making a lot of money off of it, because they're not cage free, and they're not. And they're, you know, slaughtered at eight months old. So they're all they all have the same ending. And that's another quote I use. It's like humans really shitty food that's harvested and not slaughtered. But anyway, all that to say, even through all that, I've gone through the depressed the healing that it took, I have children, and I'm, but I can't unsee what I saw. So what I do is, every single human on Earth is at a certain place in life. Some of us are more privileged to talk about this, because in some areas, people cannot rely on plants, they can't they have to hunt, or they have to, you know, there's reality as well. But my hope is that other compassionate human beings on earth will, once they see what is actually happening, they'll use it to say, to say, No, I won't be part of this, you know, I won't be part of this, this industry. But I have friends across the map. And we have unbelievable, beautiful week long, you know, vacations together, and it's lovely. But yeah, you're right, meeting them where they're at. But having gone through that, I'd really like to voice you'd like to voice truths to, you know, you talk, like once we know anything that government or other is doing to us and our bodies, freedom, autonomy, this is all about that we marketing has convinced us that these things are good, ethical and healthy, and they're not. So to me, it's about freedom. And we can't talk about freedom without talking about liberation for all all sentient beings.

Stuart Murray 26:59

Absolutely. And, you know, I agree. So completely, and I have a saying where it's like, I have strong beliefs, but I hold them loosely. Right. And so I'm willing to I stand on my convictions because I take time to reflect on these things. And I, I actually seek out people who I disagree with, so that I can deepen my understanding or change it. And I'm willing to be, you know, when, when I'm in the right mindset, and when I'm in the right heart space, I'm willing to acknowledge that I was wrong. And I'm willing to acknowledge that I can change my views. And I think if we can approach these things, and even if we're starting a conversation about eating meat, for example, and an animal husbandry and farming, and, or hunting, or whatever, of these practices, if, if we started on the premise that we all want a more beautiful earth, you know, we all at some level of our being feel pain, with the fact that like, a third of our land has been converted and desertified, or the amount of animals that are dying every every minute, you know, let alone every year, and the amount of slaughter, like there's more common grounds and more starting points, rather than hitting on these super aggressive talking points right away that are so inflammatory that after that, we're just, we're emotionally attached to ideas, and we no longer hold space for listening. And for just a back and forth play, right. And so, so often, rather than talking about what is right, we get caught up in talking about who is right. And the more attached we are to our ideas, and then the heavier those are within us, our ability to listen is compromised, our ability to hold space for possibility of what we could create together is so unbelievably compromised. And I'm seeing that in these times. Right now. It's like, you know, you talked about the other one, my body my choice, you know, there's, there's been people suffering deeply on on either side. And I just wish we could step back and say, like, well, what if we accepted that everybody cares about us having a solid health care system? What if we acknowledged that everybody is trying to do the best they can for their health, and that they're trying to do the best they can for the health of their community. And that was our starting point. Love it. It would just be so different.

Margaux Khoury 29:20

It would be so different if everyone thought like this, and I want to thank you also for doing the podcast and being a voice because you're doing something really amazing, Stu. And I think more people need friends who think this way? Because it's true. It's not about like, who is right, it's about what is right, because I'm going to just reflect what you said earlier and say the same thing. If someone came to me, like I'm very open, you know, and people use really polarizing words or I know what people think of like vegans or carnivore eaters or whatever. It's very, it's on both sides. It's super polarizing. It's about like, I'm so great about this, and this is how I've been living. And then what happens is is we have a certain amount of pride. So we don't want to be raw. So we have to keep living under that umbrella. Even though we're like questioning and thinking, oh, you know, could this be the way? Why do humans live longer on this diet and did it and so I just want to open it up to love everyone, like I want to send love out there to people suffering with this right now, and send really positive energy and vibe saying like, it doesn't matter, we're fighting for nothing. And what it is, it's not like right or wrong, it's about we do care about, we wouldn't be talking about this if we didn't care about humans, if we didn't care about our brothers and sisters. So why we'd just be kind of doing our own thing and not doing a podcast or just laying low somewhere, just living life, you know, but it is because you care, and that we care that we're talking about it. So, man, it's really, really challenging times, there's so many divisive topics, let's not let these ones be be part of that. If someone wants to reach out to me and say, look, here's what is right, or here is my research or whatever. I encourage that, and I want to have that conversation.

Stuart Murray 31:05

Totally. And we're in this age of censorship that is, is absolutely mind blowing, you know, and it's largely framed under this guise of doing something for the greater good, or, you know, let's censor somebody in the name of compassion, you know, this person is hurt, it's like, that's, that's becomes a really slippery slope, the second we start to remove people from the field of conversation, right? When we start to decide who and who cannot participate in dialogue, dialogue is a methodology of understanding. And it's a, it's a back and forth, it's a game of holding space, so that we can get down closer towards the truth. And the reality is, is that we're all flawed, and we're all fallible, and none of us the second, we try and put this into words, none of us are actually holding the truth for what it absolutely is, and, and so if we get just so deep in our own convictions, and are so unable to listen to other people, because it's inflammatory, or because it's these things, and not to say that we need to listen to everybody, we don't, we can end conversations, but we don't need to remove them from the sphere altogether. I would defend anybody's right to say whatever they need to say, as long as it's not calling for violence or calling, you know, calling that something that leads to a physical play out a violence, I would defend anybody's right. Anybody I disagree with, I would defend anything that they say yeah, for them to have the right to say it. Because the second we stop, we stop freedom of speech, we stopped freedom of thought, Yeah. And that's not a world I want to live in

Margaux Khoury 32:40

No. That's been going on for a lot longer than we realized before. These recent issues have come up, it's been really just, there's a few people in charge of media and a few people in charge, and it's quite sad. But we also have given up given away our intuitive ability to think for ourselves. So what happens is like, we believe that people in white suits, usually white men and white suits or something. And the media, we really like people just focus on what the media says and holds it to be the ultimate truth. And so I also want to send out the potential of the healing potential of people and being able to recognize what is good for them. So even when you say healthcare, I agree we need a better health care system. But why not go the full all the way and say, the only people who really care about our health is or who have control over how healthy we're going to be is us. It's what we do. It's how we think it's like the five people we surround ourselves with, though, you know, they're really toxic people, meaning if they're insulting you, or if they're, that's the thing when it comes to censorship, if someone's resorting to insults or bullying, then that's where I draw the line. But the food we eat and everything, I mean, really we have that's really powerful. That's actually a lot of hope, right there is we have the power to change the trajectory in the course of our collective health, actually.

Stuart Murray 34:05

Totally. And you know, what comes up? For me, there are a few things like one one is that hurt people hurt people, if we're healthy, if we're addressing our wounds, if we're going in and dealing with some of that trauma, both what we've had through our own experiences and what we've inherited intergenerationally if the more we address that, the more we're able to hold a compassionate space to hold for other people's trauma because it's it's from those places that we are steamrolling other people and canceling other people, when we're secure and confident in ourselves, we're not looking to shut down other people. We're not looking to shame other people, we want to lift them up. So there's there's that aspect of it. And the other piece is what you said at the start is like we're looking outside of us for what is true. And so we're grasping through the media, through our governments through our the other bureaucrats or men in white suits or, or whatever that is, and there's been almost, perhaps a beneficial can rationing system for those in power that make us small so that we look for a dogmatic way forward be that and religion or, or law or whatever that is, is to tell us how to live. And, you know, one of my biggest hopes and aspirations for humanity is that we can dive into our individual and collective healing and reconnect with that whisper that's in our hearts. Because if each one of us are connected to that, I believe that we will step into that more beautiful world that is possible. And we can create a world that's rooted and trust, a world that's rooted in mutual respect. And it doesn't need a top down authoritarian way to help us live. I just, it's not, it's not going to be the way forward, I really feel that

Margaux Khoury 35:47

I agree. I think the state of the world is due right now. And, and what's happening proves that it has been a mistake, living life this way, really, and even everything from how the hospitals are full of really sick humans. And that's been a mistake. The school system, I worked in the school system, I can fully confidently say this, it is a mistake. You know, there's all these systems and all these like institutions that really just exist for one reason, and it's to gain control over the people's minds and health. You know, again, it's not an individual's fault, it's become so kid, we're conditioned, it's become systemic. And that system is very hard to change. So that's where we can make a difference on an individual level, the more we hear that you can unschool your children like, oh, my gosh, you know, you can you can teach or children can learn on their own Well, yes, because we learn to walk we learn to eat, we learn to, you know, talk without instruction without a teacher telling us how to do it. We learned so many things on our own, and what school does it actually inhibits, and kills creativity. And we need more individual thinkers and more creatives. And people who can, like I said, think for themselves and know the difference between right and wrong. And on the side of justice, and what's right in the world, there is no gray line, there's either something is just or it's not something is right or it's wrong. So while I agree about human, you know, I'm not right all the time, and I want to be proven wrong. But there is when it comes to any justice issue, any social justice issue, there is totally right and wrong. And that is if it hurts someone, or a sentient being or not. So that's, that's I went on for it. That was a tangent. But anyway, there you have it, but the school thing, you know, I see it with my own eyes. How, what a difference we can make.

Stuart Murray 37:43

Yeah, no, I totally agree with the school. I mean, I've been I was an educator for five years before I was asked to leave because of the vaccine mandates. And I've realized that there are amazing people in all of these systems, who go in there with genuine intentions, but as you said earlier, the systems themselves are designed to disempower the individual, and to uplift some some bigger agenda that that is serving, we become cogs, right and so schooling is synonymous with compliance and conformity It is not about liberating the spirit of the individual and unleashing creativity. And I think learning and education in its many forms from unschooling to nature based schooling to the right teacher who's in the bureaucratic system. There's so many ways, but if we can nurture that sacred flame of curiosity, kids are so intuitive. Kids know, you know, they know mutual respect, they don't they're not born racist, they're not born sexist. They're not. They're, there's this beautiful innocence and curiosity and sense of wonder, and children that it's got to be our duty to nurture that and to flame fan that flame for them. And then give them the skills, give them the tools and, and help prop them up when they they need a little boost. But like you said, and as you've mentioned before, you're on that unschooling journey with your children. And so I'm sure you've, you've witnessed so much of that take place

Margaux Khoury 39:17

I have, and it's also more about us, it's more about de-schooling or unschooling, us first we need to uncondition and unlearn what we thought we knew about education or how human beings learn. And I've discovered that not one person on earth has the right to teach you or to show you, you know, force you whatever, into like, what to learn or how to learn it or when to learn it, you know, since when does another human being have that power over us to you know, so when I was teaching like I was in the system as well, just like us, so we share that. And that resonates with me a lot. When I was teaching I remember thinking the very same thing like I'm up here instructing. But these kids like they can teach me so much they have a mind of their own, we're inhibiting them from seeking out what they really want to do. And the curriculum is all based on, you know, what the government wants people to do and to become really good workers and so, so I quit early because I couldn't even teach them outside, for example, that was a huge No, no, and in our school, so like, all these little things that um, but also, I want to say that, yes, there's a spectrum, unschooling, homeschooling all that all that is all that is, is allowing them to have autonomy over what they're learning, that's it being their guide and providing the resource, you know, there's no labels are also very harmful often. So.

Stuart Murray 40:37

They totally are, and what comes up for me there is the word Trust. And I think there's some deep trauma that happens from a young age, be it, you know, bless our parents and bless the teachers who are in there in the trenches doing that work. But there's almost this lack of trust baked in through our culture where, you know, the child dumps the markers out and it makes a mess, or they do something and it's like, well, no, no. And so we're just constantly overriding their intuitive exploration, that curiosity, and it's just met with no, nope, no, instead, we start to override the facts like, oh, oh, maybe I'm not trustworthy. Oh, right. And, and that creates internal conflict in the child. And it's like we need to, not only in our in our schooling context, but societally even for our adults, like, what would the world look like if we created systems that were rooted in trust? Portugal, right. They decriminalized drugs, their drug abuse weights, were some of the highest in the European Union, and then become the lowest Yeah, because they've switched shifted that from criminalizing the people who use these substances, to then offering health care and addiction services with that same money. And then, you know, people are thriving.

Margaux Khoury 41:55

It's almost counterintuitive for anyone to think that way. But that's a big move on the government's part to do that. But there's lots of examples where that works. Yeah. And yeah, that is one of them. That's amazing. I, yeah, it's really hard to you're, you were you've been around kids, and you saw that it's really easy for us to fall into that, Oh, this isn't, don't do this No, or whatever. But you know, that it's really tedious? Isn't it tip to be that person that adults in their life always saying no, we're always like, creating boundaries. And you know what I mean, it's really like, having experienced both now that I'm in this, it's not permissive parenting, people do mistake it with, Oh, we're permissive parents. It's not, we set safe boundaries, and we help them but they have full autonomy over their choices. And it's been liberating, because we don't have to be that those parent like they, because it's also counterintuitive, you trust more, they do better, you know, we want to, we want to make you proud, you trust less and restrict more, they will they will push the boundaries more. So it's like, just like that, you know, how society should be. But lately, it's proven to be.

Stuart Murray 43:04

That's right. No, it's totally the case, right? We, the more we, we create those structures and conditions that are like, Okay, I'm not feeling trusted. If I'm not feeling in my power, yeah, I might not be cognizant of how much I'm impacting other people. But the second, I feel empowered, the second, I feel trusted, I know that I influence people. And I know that I have to now have responsibility with that influence. And so with my power, comes responsibility. And so I need to be rooted in myself and conscious about the actions that I take, because what I do is going to impact myself and the people around me and the environment that I'm a part of, yeah, and so, you know, my emphasis in education was largely rooted in trust, like, let's authority in and of itself is not bad. I might know more than a lot of these kids in a lot of situations. And I might be able to help keep them safe and create the right container. But I can, I can hold authority, out of respect, not out of fear. And I can create right relationships between myself and those young people. And so often, I leaned into, you know, sharing key principles and key values, and teaching, like modeling, teaching and reinforcing those when I saw them. And I'm wondering, like, what are some of the core values and principles that guide you in your profession and your passion in the, in the unschooling or teaching of your children?

Margaux Khoury 44:34

Yeah, great question. Oh, my goodness, so many, but really, at the end of the day, how we're dealing with any human children are just little people, right? We often we often treat them like they're, you know, somehow less lesser or they age appropriately. They're capable of so much and we're in actually they're able to handle so many truths as well. So I encourage parents not to not to hide things from them. Of course, we don't want to, you know, we don't want to traumatize them at an early age, but, but those values are so important. Basically, Pete the kids know, in my family, and the children, I interact with it no matter what, they're always going to get the truth from me, no matter what, as hard as it is to swallow the truth that I know, for example, you know, parents have a hard time with this one. But, you know, we know Santa Claus is, is not real. So it's a myth, but it's also very magical. I know I'm sorry, who's listening.

Stuart Murray 45:34

Disclaimer! Haha

Margaux Khoury 45:36

Disclaimer, okay, so I, you know, what he's real to both to some people, but also, he, as a person, we look at it as the magic of Christmas in the midst of it. Like we, we also have fairies in our life, like we do a lot of, we build fairy homes, you know, and we do that. So I shouldn't say these things are real. But what I mean is if if Maddix are like, straight up, asked me mum, does a man in a white beard come to our home and deliver gifts? Or, you know, something like that? I will say, well, actually not in the physical No, but the spirit is there if, or, yeah, holidays. But my point is, basically, they're gonna get the truth for me. So I know. Okay, I have to go back to the topic of the animal thing, because I'll just share with you that children are born wanting to eat a rabbit. There's not they're not born wanting to eat a cow either. So if you give them an option between a cow or a pig, and a carrot, the child's gonna go for the carrot, right? Every single time. And so they know. And they know that they're friends. And we, we, we condition them, we we basically forced them to do something that's not natural for humans. And it's actually not natural for humans. And I can go into that later about the macro Mitro micronutrients, but we're not lions. So the children, you know, so where was I on this topic, I kind of gone off a little bit. But the point is, is they're going to get the truth from me. So my slaughterhouse footage, you know, I showed it to my older, he wanted to know, so I was like, Look, you know, there, it's very, very, very hard to watch. Because it's, it's painful. You physically feel paying yourself when you want, like, if you see your brother or, or a dog, if you see a dog being hurt, you know, we love dogs, most of us or care for them. Or cats, we have sort of physically hurts someone Cymatics experienced that. And it's really what all three children and all children I talked to who live this way, it's what keeps them saying absolutely, if I'm hungry, or starving, or whatever, I will find another way. And it's just a thing, you know, in, in our life, but um, yeah, all that to say, so the truth thing, transparency, you know, authenticity. Also. Knowing that, we we always aim to make people feel really good. Like, it's really look at the difference between you said, hurt people hurt people, let's fix that, you know, let's fix that hurt and that pain and make sure that our children, future children are not the ones that hurt people. Because they were, you know, they were given everything that we could emotionally so

Stuart Murray 48:17

And I think one thing that come up there, even at the end is like, this idea of transparency. And within that, another word, and as I was reading through your, your bio, you said, authenticity is paramount. And I love that right? It's this idea, again, of checking in with ourselves and being true to ourselves, not some image that we've conjured up from, you know, whatever our parents or whatever system is telling us how we should be it's, it's really checking in is this true to me? Is that right? And I'm wondering like in a culture where we're just constantly bombarded with ideas and images of who we should be yes. How does one form an identity that remains true and authentic to themselves?

Margaux Khoury 49:06

Yeah, that's very difficult also, I find I have found depending on where we live as well because we also we lived in Scottsdale Arizona where you know, love them all but it's very like it's there's an artificial kind of sense there where we all have to keep up with like keep up with the Joneses and many people I knew there were not really who they were, but it location as well. Nelson British Columbia, the opposite people are truly kind of very authentic and but so outside of location, how do we maintain that it's very tricky in today's society, because people have also lost their identity based on what someone the label someone has given them. Or if you need if someone wants to get a good job these days, some people have to be someone they're not, you know, to get that job or something like that. But at the end of the day, yeah, it can be. It can be challenging based on goals because some Our goals don't actually align with who we truly are or who we think we are. So I do think it's really important. We are happiest when we are ourselves. I mean, isn't that, you know, right, when we are actually ourselves, whether we're, you know, whatever it is, whoever we are, I am the happiest when I'm just, I can just be me in any relationship, friendships or professionally. So that's why I wrote that. And I think it's, I think it really is one of the most important things.

Stuart Murray 50:32

Totally. And it's so hard, it's something I meditate on a lot. And I think for me, one of those aspects of that is taking time for myself. Right, and journaling and developing a connection with myself and, and writing and reflecting and thinking, you know, is this truly something I am doing for myself? And does this? I think one of my biggest tools is bringing awareness into my body, like does this how's this feel? In my body, this thing that I'm doing? Or the thing that I'm saying? Like, where's that resonating? Is it an expansive feeling? Do I feel you know, contraction? Do I feel anxiety? Do I feel certain emotions around that that's been super informative, for my practice, at least of stepping into that?

Margaux Khoury 51:19

That's so beautiful. I love that so much. And that's such an important practice. It just, there's, there's trauma around not being who you are. Because for years, I actually went a long time just pretending being someone I'm not for business purposes and all that. And it's really like the feeling of you know, when, when, I don't know, for whatever reason, you go down the path of not being truthful, or you tell a lie. And then you have to kind of keep up with that. It's the same sort of feeling. It's like, okay, why am I keeping up with someone I'm not and then, you know, it's really hard to break the finally, when you break them, you say no, like, it doesn't matter what job I land or what you know, opportunity is if it's not going to happen for who I am. But that's not to say we don't want to grow and be better. But I love that meditation part of it because then you know that scene and like zoo lander are people are like, who am I, you know, who am I choosing your whatever, you can't really be that way if you don't truly know who you are as a person. And just, you know, my partner and I talk about this all the time, he loves the gym, like he just he goes to the gym, he loves it, it makes him feel great. I'm the opposite I love. I love ecstatic dance, and I love just, you know, doing just meditating he doesn't. We're so different. Finally, we're not pretending to be someone we're not we like so that's an example of It's very liberating. It's difficult to escape. But

Stuart Murray 52:47

yeah. It is so liberating, though, when we can lean into that. And one thing also you said on on your bio, was really talking about wanting to lean in and contribute to community and build up that power of community and the resiliency that can come from that. And I'm curious, what is your understanding or your definition, what is community?

Margaux Khoury 53:10

community is basically, family, friends, people in our life, who know us authentically and who love us and want the best for us. Because what goes along with a lot of the people that it's not anyone's fault, it's just how society has been built. We do try to keep up and also there's a sense of people don't want other people's happiness. There really is, for some reason, I don't know where this stems from, but I felt it myself with so many areas, other business people or friends or whatever, for some reason. They just, it's, I want, we want people so community, to me, it's people, that it's friends and people in our life who truly value us and want us to be happy. And that we can, you know, essentially build a life with whether it's nearby or virtually or just someone to be very supportive. So that's community to me. But when I talk about that, in the bio, like I'm very interested in building a physical community of friends who live nearby doesn't have to be one piece of land we've discussed, I have lived in a community of 127 people where it's a very intentional space, and we all gathered for music, and we all give each other food and we eat together almost every single day, not 127 of them usually is about 40 of them. But I've experienced that side of living in a very intentional community. And we drew so many good things from that, too, was amazing. And it really made me I can share a lot about that side of our life. But it made me realize that perhaps I mean, living individually, where, you know, we don't know our neighbors type thing isn't for us.

Stuart Murray 54:52

Agreed. I think that individualistic model is a dying thing. You know, this, this whole pursue Have that American Dream like, everybody's got their own lawn tractor, everybody's got their own ladder, everybody's got their own thing and say, We're house poor, we're straddling the edge of debt. I mean, look at us right now, I was reading something not long ago that, like 50% of Canadians are on the verge of insolvency. You know, we're straddling bankruptcy, right. And it's not, it's not easy that our governments printing excessive amounts of money and raising the price of gas and making it excessively hard to live on top of that. But, you know, we're in a world where we're just so individualistic and self serving by design, that it makes it so hard for us to even get ahead or to have time in our days working 40 5060 plus hours, every single week, just to not even get ahead in many cases, right. Like, just to give by, and it's, for me, I've also lived in, in some intentional communities of varying sizes, and I've seen a lot of value, and then also a lot of challenges in that. But I'm wondering, you know, like, what, what were some of the biggest things that you saw, and the some of the biggest values you saw in living in that community?

Margaux Khoury 56:09

Yeah, I love talking about the positive so much, because you're right, there are some downsides for some people. But I also feel that it's very, it's very intentional, and begins with a group of people who already know and love each other, you know, that really works out, you know, I've noticed I've studied a few of them. There's Pachamama really famous one in Costa Rica. And then there's all sorts of, but if you look at them, they'll start with a group of people who already have that deep connection, versus hey, let's just build them homes and live near each other. And we share a few things in common. There are core beliefs out there that need to be very similar. To be happy, the positives I drew are so many, but I will name a few. For example, we all had little gardens that we were in, we didn't have everything that we needed. So every couple of days, we'd find, you know, lettuce or squash on our doorstep, or cannabis or whatever, something on our doorstep, that someone else in the community was growing. And then we would reciprocate with our sunflower seeds or whatever flowed broccoli. And that was so beautiful, because it wasn't It's a gift. But it wasn't a gift with the idea of like, oh, I want something in return. You know, I give you something this week, you give me something, it's when we have more, we're the ones giving, right? If we're in abundance we give someone else in is in abundance and has something they give, they give as well. The other thing is is like you mentioned tractor, everyone's having their own tractor, everyone living in debt. No one had to have their own tractor. No one you know, as you know, from living in community, there was one community house or whatever, bash shack where we had all our stuff. And then also a dining hall where if someone like Margaret, who was 90 years old, one of our oldest oldest community members, if she didn't want to cook, which is every day, she just goes and we all make food for her and, and she lives it was the most beautiful thing. If she needs a trip to the hospital or something. There's 27 other cars who could take her it was just a beautiful community feeling. And then the bonfires and then we had you we built we all hand built a a spa like a sauna, you know, that we all used and just like something that we couldn't have done living on our own kind of thing. So and then, so if we were going to take the positives that we loved from community and just you know, that's, that's where we're gonna start create our own.

Stuart Murray 58:41

I love it. Yeah, there is so much abundance that's possible in those settings and the ability to, you know, in addition be around like minded spirits, right, as you said earlier, you know, take the five closest people, and we're the were the some of that, right? So, if we can be in community with people who have reverence for life, and tap into that state of abundance that, like we live on this planet that has more than enough for everybody. And yet, somehow we've inherited a scarcity story. There's never enough money, there's never enough food and more for somebody else means less for us. And it's just living in those conscious, intentional communities, at least, at least offers the opportunity for us to tap into that state of abundance that tap into that state where more for you does mean more for me, and I love how you mentioned gift because I've been diving into Charles Eisenstein, his work around sacred economics. And I'll link that in the show notes. Because I think that work is incredible. And he talks about, you know, the origins of money and the origins of exchange being so deeply rooted in the gift. Right? And at some point, these shysters has come around and offered interest backed money so that we could you know, borrow Romanee so that we could take on more projects, but it always required perpetual growth from there. And what that led to is the commodification of the Commons. So the commodification of our food systems to come on commodification of our waterways, the commodification of health care, and education and childcare. So everything started to have $1 sign attached to it. And then relationships, which is the, the bedrock of what it means to be human, I think our relationships became transactional, and they were no longer rooted in reciprocity. And that spirit of the gift and how we could, you know, in that exchange, create abundance, and, and not this feeling of always, you know, needing to have a sense of lack or IOU. It's like it's an IOU in a positive way. It's like, wow, this made me feel really good. I want to give more.

Margaux Khoury 1:00:52

It's true. I love that, and I haven't read that. So please do link it. That's amazing. But yeah, we've lost that, I think in the modern world. And, again, it's over time, isn't it? That it happened this way? Yeah. You know, it's not just something overnight, and humans have not been thriving.

Stuart Murray 1:01:13

No, and I think a lot of it, you know, we we focus in at the level of, Oh, it's this governmental leader, or it's that, you know, pharmaceutical organization, or this corporate company, it's like, yeah, I mean, but really, if you zoom out even more, it's like, they're all just playing their part, what it is, is a story. It's a story that we've inherited, like I said, that story of separation, scarcity, that story that, you know, we're living on a finite planet in a reductionist understanding that everything can be measured, and everything can be calculated, everything can have a financial value to it, and relationships are track transactional, and, you know, I'm feeling like, I'm never enough, and I'm never feeling like I have enough money, or I'm never have enough food. And so I'm constantly in this sympathetic state of, of fear, where I can't really tap into this divine beauty that is all around me all the time. And I think, you know, shifting that is not only shifting, you know, sure, change the government, sure, change the corporation, change the pharmaceutical company, change a policy, whatever, yeah, that's, that's a good step. We need to change the story for ourselves individually, our relationship with that, and our relationship as a collective, to know not only even in our heads, but in our heart, that abundance is possible, that everybody can have food on their plates and thrive. And that, you know, we can create ecosystems that were a part of that animals and us as being another animal in there can all have an opportunity to thrive within that I am slowly dropping that down into my heart. And that's a process because I know that you know, the scarcity and all these things coming up in me, but routing into conversations like this, yeah. And CO creating those communities is where the weavers have the stories of that more beautiful world. That's possible.

Margaux Khoury 1:03:08

You and I need to talk more about this. No, it's like, you know... Again, that's the beauty of these times, I'll still share with you a positive that has come up from these times. We if like, when the cream rises to the top, we see each other right, we know each other, we gather now and it's like, we wouldn't have done that before really on the level of that we would have. So there's always positives that come from the darkness. But um, you know, it's time to rise. And that's the the other project I just want to share that I have going on is called Rising mothers and rising mothers. To me, it's not just the summit and speakers, but it's really about its time mother is a Gaia as well, right? It's like Earth, we are connected to the grandmother, ever our earth and to such a deep level, we are not separate from separate. We need the nourishment, and we need the healing and we need the plants that it provides. And that makes us so connected at a heart level that cannot be severed. And it has been severed in so many ways. And so rising mother to me is about bringing back that abundance mindset, making people see that, yes, Earth provides and if we treat it properly, we have everything that we could ever need. And I want that for every soul on earth even though right now it's really hard to watch in some areas. But we stew in that knowing we are the people who know that and then sharing that and it's up to us I do feel it's a responsibility to share. But also gather and raise the vibration by like if we collectively gather and talk about this and meditate on it. I do feel that the Earth's vibration will will rise to so.

Stuart Murray 1:04:48

Totally Yeah. And it can't be just absent words, right. As you're saying. It's like, yes, we need to hold the story and we need to show up in that space of potentiality and possibility, but that that showing up isn't just by sitting around and professing something, like, if I'm not living that, that those words are going to feel pretty empty

Margaux Khoury 1:05:10

100% We need to live the truth live first. And that's the other thing like it relates to the children thing too, because actions, action is way more powerful than just empty words. For anything, we can all talk and talk and talk, but it's really just time to live that and be that and sort of lead by example, right?

Stuart Murray 1:05:31

There's no other way. I mean, change comes from inspiration, not from coercion, right? It's been a pretty, pretty interesting couple of years to reflect on. But I'm curious with the, you know, the rising mother Summit, what? What's that entail? If somebody's interested in like, what's going on during that time?

Margaux Khoury 1:05:49

Yeah, thanks so much. So I created this with the idea that we mothers fathers to or uncle's or whatever a family who are dealing with interacting with the next generation of beings, there is we need to unlearn what we know to be true first, before we can pass that knowledge on even though some children are born with this knowledge. But rising mothers will be about all the pillars that I mentioned, to make a human thrive. And really, it is part of what I studied as well, which is lifespan, increasing human lifespan, in a way that's healthy, and in a way that's natural and beautiful. Because as I said earlier, our collective health is suffering. And health to me doesn't necessarily mean just what we eat. But it's what we put in our mind and waking up every single day with a purpose. So one of the pillars that I talked about in rising mothers is purpose. What is our purpose? Why are we here? The big question, you know, so allowing us to explore, like, you know, there's a difference between someone who wakes up every morning and gets out of bed and super excited, and they want to just get to the day versus someone, I feel so bad. Like, I used to be that person. I wake up and I'm like, Oh, my goodness, like I have to do this today. Like, this is such a drag. We've it's a that shouldn't happen. Right? It's we it's just time is so short here in a way, but also so beautiful that we really should just wake up. Oh my god, I'm gonna just go into the grass right now and walk barefoot and enjoy him or read this book that I've been dying to read and get excited about reading a bit every single morning or, like, what's my purpose? mindsets? Huge, but that's all that all, you know, they all come together. And yes, what we feel our body with one of the pillars is nutrition. And ideal. What's been I lived in some of the Blue Zones and what's what's, what everyone has in common, what they eat, and then movement, the gym. I hate to break it to anyone listening. But heavy lifting is not actually good for lifespan at all. It's the opposite. And what is really good is Light Movement yoga, stretching, moving, walking, walking up and down hills biking. Just some of the things that is what I consider like movement versus versus heavy lifting your phone. So yeah, it's so today with quite the Juggle but uh, but rising mothers will be about that too, and, and so much more. I'm so excited for some of the speakers we brought together and it's all virtual.

Stuart Murray 1:08:23

Yeah, looking through the website, I saw incredible lineup, and I love that diverse focus on on what health means. And particularly, I think that leadership is really important right now because I've seen a vacuum of leadership around what health really looks like I think these last two years have been an opportunity to focus in on, on having leaders explain and help people get healthy because, you know, times have been scary for a lot of people, right? It's like, okay, well, where do we turn to do we ban the places where people can move and we tell them to mask up and sanitize and do these things. It's like, Man, I It pains me to see that as these as the people who are the figures of authority that people turn to there's trust there that's established, and they're really doing such a disservice because I haven't seen anybody mentioned any of the things you just talked about.

Margaux Khoury 1:09:17

No. The whole that what you just said there the when you said we need the leaders to show up and it's true people historically need a leader to show up before they do. But the real leader the real power is within us we are we know that there are some things that just don't make sense. And it's the people who do always wear the really like toxic masks are the ones who are immunocompromised or have weak lungs. Those are the ones that are doing it. And those are people who shouldn't be doing that because it's so detrimental to what's happening in here. Things like this are things like so much so much is like the opposite. Really. It's a broken system and we've relied too heavily on the leaders. So my hope and bringing the speakers in all During our recordings, we're always trying to give power back to the people listening saying, really like you, you're, you're sovereign, and you also have autonomy and choices more than we ever know. And that's another part of community see, what I want to bring together is just the community to me, what happens is we can be more self reliant. And we shouldn't expect to know every single skill on earth or have every single strength or we bring skills together, like any good community or business, and we rely on each other to have those beautiful skills and share. So yeah, that's, I can go on about this topic. But that's pretty much pretty much it.

Stuart Murray 1:10:42

I could go on with that. I figured, since we're on it now, I would normally kind of dive into this at the very end. But if somebody is interested, when is the rising mother's summit taking place? And how could somebody i'll link, I guess I'll link to the website, in the show notes. So anybody interested in actually joining it, it'd be down at rising mothers, all that will all linked up. So I have no problem finding him when when is it?

Margaux Khoury 1:11:08

It's a we're gonna launch probably September 1, the recordings are all pre recorded, and really amazing discussions. It's authentic. It's not interview style. I mean, it is a little bit for some people, but it's beautiful, because it's a discussion like this. And then September 1, we launch and then after I'm creating a community online, like a group of like minded people who want to hear more and get more information and just kind of breathe together and live together and virtually. We'll have live events eventually. So I do want to turn it into something greater community wise. But I don't want it to be about me, either. I want it to be about the collective and everyone, everyone having a voice so so I'm happy to Yeah, to share that with you when it is live. And everyone who wants to hear it at the summit will always be free. This is not a paid thing. It's a free Summit, and it will always be free and available. We're recording it. So yes, sign up, but sign up to hear it and but you'll you'll always have access to it. So

Stuart Murray 1:12:12

That's incredible. I love that. That's a huge, you're bringing huge value to people and bringing power back to where it belongs is with the people.

Margaux Khoury 1:12:23

It really, really is. And I know you know that it's like so, so important to hear.

Stuart Murray 1:12:29

Yeah, it's an inspiration to sit and listen to. And you mentioned leadership, you know, and that's actually something I had written down like, in your bio, again, you were talking about leadership. And I wanted to ask you who are who are what is the leader? And I think you articulated that quite well. But I'm also curious, like, what are some key skills of leaders when we see them? What are some of those big skills that jumped out to me,

Margaux Khoury 1:12:54

My goodness, there's so many empathy, compassion, meeting people, where they're at understanding, we're all coming from a different background, you know, leaders in talk, I mean, I've managed teams as well. So this is huge for me to like, remember, you know, we've all been managed, and we've all been led, and it feels so good when our leaders have a respect, respect, mutual respect, empathy for us and where we're at. But there's leaders on all sorts of levels that look at the best world leaders out there, you know, that the best ever world leaders are people who shine and are known through history are the ones that really Sat Sat with the people and allowed them to, to see how they're also leaders. So yeah. Yeah, but yeah, there's, there's a lot to be said there, too, because human beings naturally want to be led, like, there's really, there's really been, it's been shown to have a couple of different categories, some of us, you know, like the leadership role, or really thrive in that role, and others just want to be led. And I think it's really important to, to recognize when leaders have a corrupt agenda or something, you know, there's so much behind the scenes, right. So

Stuart Murray 1:14:12

Totally. And I guess, you know, that that involves us needing to be connected with ourselves to be able to have a good bullshit meter and have to be able to kind of spot some of these things otherwise we're will be pretty fallible. You know, public public relations is a is a real thing that the origin days of public relations were the early books on that work called propaganda. All right, and then you just Yeah, but

Margaux Khoury 1:14:39

The good news is, is once you see that once your bullshit radar as you said, it's something in you that triggers you always kind of see it. It's always like, oh, and it's really not a thing, just like everything, it's almost a feeling, it's a vibration, it's a feeling of like you, you know, when you're talking to someone, they're their intention, in a way, right and And let's harness that let's hone in on that feeling and just lead our lives like with authenticity, but also, it doesn't do us any justice to, to pretend that these people have our best intention at heart.

Stuart Murray 1:15:15

Right? Right. Right. No, it's the case. And, and at the same time, we could still give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they're doing the best they can with where they're at.

Margaux Khoury 1:15:27

With where they're at exactly. But also, us to be part of whatever, you know, whatever it is, like, for our own good and our children's good, but absolutely meet them where they are. And so you know, I send you love, and I hope that you heal as well, because if someone's pretty corrupt, they have some healing to do, right.

Stuart Murray 1:15:44

That's right. Yeah. And I think that's, that's the bigger piece, right? It's like, okay, well, there's, there is a lot of healing. And, well, if you're willing to sell your soul for corporate profit, or to get a cut on, on some share, move up the bureaucratic ladder, you know, it's like, there's some wounded person in there who's really scared of not being enough who's scared of being abandoners His grew up with, with some level of, of seeking outside of themselves to feel enough. And so, you know, we do we do ultimately need to sit with that and bring a higher degree of maturity, if we want to transcend this collectively, otherwise, we're just going to perpetuate partisan politics, yes. And we're going to perpetuate our inability to listen to one another. In just keep going around in the circles, as we're witnessing today,

Margaux Khoury 1:16:36

That's really that's really hurtful on on so many levels. And it's really what an awful feeling, isn't it not to feel that we can trust anyone. So I love what you said earlier, it's like, let's give them the benefit of the doubt. Because there are, believe it or not, there are people that we that don't cheat, lie, or steal, or walk all over someone's back, just to get ahead. And they're still out there. And companies as well as some of them are doing the best they can. So hopefully, that will shine through, you know, it's like, there's a certain threshold of us and people like us who have to come to the light before it can true change can happen. So let's keep following those people. And, yeah,

Stuart Murray 1:17:15

Yeah, that's right. I'm at the point where I'm focusing on the world that I want to lean into not I know enough now of what I don't want to you know, I challenge a lot of the people I find on on this side of the, for lack of a better term, the left, right now, you know, I have some really well intentioned friends and people that I know who want to tear down the system, you want to tear down capitalism, you want to tear down all of these things like, great, you know, if that's if that's your stance, but be careful, because you in doing so you ought to know what you want to replace that with. And we need to be clear on what it is not only what we dislike, I think that's a really immature starting point. It's kind of that that frustration of stumbling into our independence, stumbling into our desire for autonomy, but it's not a mature, it's not fully matured, it hasn't been fully thought out. And so we're not really sure on the direction, we want to take that and we want to destroy the existing structures, but have no container to hold that vision of that of that new world that we want to step into.

Margaux Khoury 1:18:28

That is the important thing is do we want to put our energy into destruction and destroying and I want to talk more about creation and you know, the alternatives and like I said, at the beginning the solutions, not that it's wrong to want that system to end or whatever. But I changed my views long ago, I work in in sort of the health organizations with transitioning firms to be more sustainable. And I hear a lot we need to destroy this this like industrial farming, no, like, we really don't need to destroy it. Let's just create this alternative that's people see is even more beautiful. And more abundant. Helps helps solve hunger, you know, there's all of this stuff. And that's a big, big issue that's not talked about, because one is the destruction thing. Let's you know what I mean, in a way, it's like, I want to talk about the creation of the beautiful thing. So you said I don't blame people for wanting to, to end that or destroy it. Let's all shift our energy, we only have so much energy and time. Let's shift that into a beautiful alternative and creating together. That's where I'm interested in doing and that's, you know, I do shy away from meetings and some things and gatherings because when it's yeah, it's just a different vibe.

Stuart Murray 1:19:41

Totally. And I've I've related to that even being a part of different communities in the last couple of years. A lot of it is rooted in fear and like I was hoping to come here to meet with like minded individuals who want to affect change, and there is that the intention is there but it's still rooted in that separation and scarcity stories, right? And, and so it is requiring us having the courage to root down into our heart and, and to lean into something bigger, like let's get away from playground politics. And who did this or who did that and, like we need to step out of the victim and reclaim our power. And one one term that I've really loved that I discovered in these past few years, from, you know, the, the two individuals that come up are Buckminster Fuller and Vaclav Havel, who coined, we're really talking about parallel structures. And it's like, Okay, let's stop rearranging furniture on the Titanic, the ship is sinking, it's sinking itself, like, we've smashed an iceberg, perhaps millennia ago, and it's just this slow sinking that's been happening, and now we're at, we're at the what I would say, a potential climax, or a fork in the road, where we have a choice that we have to make, and that we can make within our own hearts, and within our own communities, and we don't need to, you know, do anything else to the Titanic. We can, we need to create the lifeboats, we need to create the life rafts so that when people are ready, in their own time, they can jump ship. And there's somewhere that there'll be well received.

Margaux Khoury 1:21:18

100% Yeah, I love I really love that analogy, because it's exactly true. So, yeah, no, it's amazing. And that's spreading that word, people will get it, it's like, wow, that actually, like makes so much sense. And let's start doing that, you know, instead, we do, it's really nice to have people and skills and we don't know, it's really a tough feeling to feel like we're out of control, or we don't know, like, we're not in control of our outcome. So I just want to encourage people that we do have, we can be in control again, you know, and gathering with like, minds to me is key. So I'm really excited by that, you know, and it's hard. I mean, we have friends all over the world, but those of us that are nearby, right, we can we can gather.

Stuart Murray 1:22:07

Absolutely. And I love the idea of exploring these intentional communities for so I'm sure after this, we'll be able to keep picking, picking it back up and keep rolling with the momentum of that. Awesome. So is there anything else that you'd like to, you know, kind of touch on are some things anything specific that you'd like to share with listeners,

Margaux Khoury 1:22:32

I think we touched on so much I, you know, me, I'd love just to talk about these issues, but also to, I also would love to encourage people to reach out because without dialogue and community, then there's nothing you know, for doll just sitting in our own little silos thinking or just, there's a lot of repetitive work research that someone else has done that I would love to see, or just things that I have mentioned, perhaps that someone's interested in or whatever, but just reach out. And let's just start the dialogue. And I'm interested in creating masterminds, by the way in groups, I'm interested in creating high level brainstorming, masterminds at this type of this type of level stew that you and I talk about, where we can even just make each other feel good, even if it's just that I'm happy. But also that has the potential of creating some systemic lasting change.

Stuart Murray 1:23:24

I would love to be a part of that I've been reflecting on these mastermind ideas, and just bringing people together in the space to have these conversations about solutions about that step to move forward. And if somebody is keen to carry on the conversation, I mean, I'll link you know, plant futures and rising mothers and, and other aspects. But where would somebody who's interested in connecting with you? What's the best way to for them to get contact,

Margaux Khoury 1:23:49

you can email me it's just my name, That's like my personal email. And it's not related to anything business, but just reach out to me. And that's the way let's chat.

Stuart Murray 1:24:04

Perfect. I'll make sure all of that's linked down in the show notes for anybody listening. Thank you. And one last question for you. It's a loaded word. And based on based on our wide variety of conversations and the different things you've got going on, I'm sure you can take it in a ton of different directions. But what is your big vision to to see and to see humanity move forward?

Margaux Khoury 1:24:29

Oh, wow, that is so good. There's so many ways just like oh, okay, so taking back that power thing, right taking, learning to use our own god given intuition as to like how we're navigating. I hear too many too many friends and people say okay, oh, they haven't. Like, they haven't announced the change or the, you know, mandates Dylon or something or this it's like, we are guided and bound by someone else making these decisions. Hands on when we can move or breathe. And so that's one way I really think we can just move forward just like let go of that, you know, it's, it's not even illegal to not do it, you can do it. That's your choice. As long as you know that it's a choice you made like I don't judge anyone for doing anything. But I also don't want to be judged for not doing something, if that makes sense. So just like getting back that intuition moving forward, meeting masterminding just raising that what I call the vibe, the vibration, so Oh, my goodness, that is a loaded question. And also, you know, I keep going, it's really just so polarizing, but I keep going back to something that's really not just important to me, this is not an agenda, it's really shaping up to be like the freedom aspect, liberating all sentient beings liberates us, it really does, you know, and I do love that. Some indigenous brothers and sisters of mine are starting to talk about it, because the way we've been doing it has been a mistake. And we are consuming and on any level when we're consuming the energy of fear, or when we're consuming the energy of abuse, because it all is, that is the energy that is flowing through our body. And we want living, vibrant, healthy, you know, amazing energy flowing through our system, to be the visionaries to move forward. So that's a big part of freedom.

Stuart Murray 1:26:21

I love it. I love it. And I look forward to continuing to raise the collective vibration with you, Margo. It's every time we've said, we've sat down and chatted, I am leaving with tons of ideas, even more questions, feeling more inspired. And I just, I think you're doing so much in so many different ways. And it's clear that you are here to be of service. And I find that so inspiring. And I appreciate that so much. So thank you for the work you're doing. And I look forward to diving deeper with you.

Margaux Khoury 1:26:59

Oh, thank you, Steven, thank you for the work you're doing. I'm actually nothing without everyone surrounding me and people who've done it before. And so I want to appreciate you and your podcast and everything that I know you're going to be doing in the future. So appreciate the connection so much.

Stuart Murray 1:27:14

Thanks so much.

I hope you enjoyed this episode with Margot Corey. Once again, a big thank you to our sponsor Karen Phytoplankton. You can subscribe to this podcast on iTunes, Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts. And you can also find me on Facebook and YouTube at the connected movement. Thanks again and see you next Monday.